More plane questions

[Anna]

Didn't want to hijack the other thread, so I decided to start my own.

I got my new planes: a Veritas jack plane which I truly love and a Lie-Nielsen block plane that I'm still trying to figure out how to use. I also got an old Stanley No.7 Bailey-type plane. I have to say that I am pretty pleased with both the jack plane and the jointer. I thought they'd be too big for me, but they both feel really nice in my hands, especially the jack.

I tried them out on a cupped maple board, and there are a few issues I'd like to ask about.

1. Do I plane with the cupped portion up or down? In using the power jointer, I have the cupped portion facing down in order to have a better control of the board (it doesn't wobble). I tried doing the same thing with the hand planes, but I'm wondering if the logic is all wrong. It seems to make more sense to joint it with the cup facing up so that I get the two edges cleaned out and planed first. But then it wobbles!

2. How thick of a shaving am I supposed to aim for? Too thin and it takes forever. Too thick and, well, I can't move the darned thing. Is there a technique or rule of thumb? Am I supposed to get another plane (scrubber or something?) or use a power jointer first to clean up with? For wider boards, I'm starting to think that I might have to start with my portable 3" power planer to roughly get a flat piece before cleaning up with the jack or jointer plane. Does that make sense?

3. How do the h*ll am I supposed to use a block plane? I got a low angle version because I thought it would help in cleaning out the hardwood edging for the shelves and the cabinet top, but all I'm doing is gouging everything. I'm actually surprised I don't like the Lie-Nielsen plane more. Which probably means I'm using it all wrong.

4. Now that I've got four planes (including my medium-sized shoulder plane), what's the best way to store them? So far, I'm keeping the two Lie-Nielsen's in the boxes they came in, but the jack and the jointer don't have a box, so I've been readjusting the blades each time I store them.

5. Is a Stanley 45 worth buying? It comes with 18 blades, but it's nickel-plated. I think the concept is cool, but I have no idea what I'm going to use it for. Still an antique, though (ca. 1907), so I'm sorely tempted to take it.

Thanks for any responses. And sorry for the longish post.

Anna

[Tom Miller]

Now that's some major gloat! It won't take long to get them figured out, and to start getting great results. I think I planed every surface of scrap wood in my shop when I first got my LV LA Jack. That was a good way to learn, for me.

Keep in mind, I'm no expert, and don't even have a lot of planes, but....

Also, I use my handplanes in conjunction with my powered stuff, as you'll see.

1. For starters, I'd clamp it on the bench cup-up, and go at the edges with a fairly thick cut (since the chip is so narrow). Just be sure to clamp it so it doesn't wobble. Then, once stable enough (without needing to be perfectly flat), I send it through my power planer.

2. Shaving thickness -- well, you've pretty much discovered the rule of thumb: thick enough to make good progress, but thin enough to, well, make good progress.

3. When you say you're "gouging" everything, do you mean you're getting tearout? If so, go at it in the opposite direction. You still need to "read" your grain just like with the powered planes/jointers. Or did I misunderstand?

Many times, though, that low angle of attack is a big part of the problem. In such cases with my LA Jack, I switch from the 25 degree to the 38 degree blade, and get much better results.

4. Storage -- I store my (few) planes laying on their sides in a compartmented drawer. Nothing fancy, but readily accessible. Some folks make really fancy plane tills. Readjusting blades could get old fast.

5. Oooh, you got it bad...

And now, for the advice you didn't ask for:

- Keep a rag of paste wax close by, and keep the sole of the plane slippy. Multiple swipes per job is not too much, but not so much wax that it's transferring to the wood appreciably.

- Hone your blades.

Regards,
Tom

[Anna]

Now that's some major gloat!

Yikes. That wasn't my intention at all. I thought a gloat is when you get something really good for cheap, like curly maple for $1 per bf. I identified the planes because, well, people who own them or familiar with them might understand what I'm doing wrong with them.

I think I will end up planing every surface available. I had to restrain myself from trying the plane out on the dining table after unpacking it the first time. There's like an itch to start swooshing or something. And the jack plane is truly glorious. The feel of it and the balance was just perfect. I'm so in love with that tool. I wonder if my husband would mind if I tuck it in on the table beside our bed.

I might order another blade for the jack with a higher angle like you did. Is the LV iron recommended, or can I go with something like Hock? (Incidentally, he lives in Fort Bragg, which is like an hour from me. Wonder if he cares to meet uninvited guests....)

As for storage, I guess storing them on their sides is the most practical way to go. But they're so pretty, and it's almost a shame to do it that way. Oh, I really have to get over this falling-in-love-with-tools thing.

Thanks for the tip on the paste wax. Didn't think about it. As for honing, I got some microabrasives from LV (down to 5 microns?). That should be good enough, right?


Anna

[Tom Miller]

Now that's some major gloat!

Yikes. That wasn't my intention at all....

Oh, I truly meant it in the good way! Hope I didn't accidentally rain on your parade! And, yes, I think I'm guilty of blurring the meaning of the word.

I think you'd get good use out of the higher angle blade from the git-go, so you might as well put it on your short list. Even for edge jointing, I sometimes get tearout if I don't use it. I don't know whether the Hock will work. I do know that LV now ships their blades pre-lapped; that's added value, to me, so keep that in mind.

For sharpening/honing, I go from either 1200 or 2000 grit (Scary Sharp) to a strop -- not sure where the micro-abrasives compare.

Regards,
Tom

[gwyneth]

what's the best way to store them? So far, I'm keeping the two Lie-Nielsen's in the boxes they came in, but the jack and the jointer don't have a box, so I've been readjusting the blades each time I store them.

You'll find lots of ideas for cabinets and shelves with sills. In some of Nick Engler's books about shop furniture, the enclosed tool cabinet plans call for a small perforated compartment that holds mothballs (?) to deter rust. If you are in a humid area, you could use that idea with dessicant crystals, too.

[eddy merckx]

How do the h*ll am I supposed to use a block plane? I got a low angle version because I thought it would help in cleaning out the hardwood edging for the shelves and the cabinet top, but all I'm doing is gouging everything. I'm actually surprised I don't like the Lie-Nielsen plane more. Which probably means I'm using it all wrong.

Hi Anna

Is that hardwood edging end grain? A low angle block plane is specifically designed to plane end grain. The trick is to adjust the blade so it just barely takes a shaving. Anything deeper will definitely make a gouge. If you need to work long grain with a block plane, you'll just have to get a standard block plane.

Regarding fast removal of wood, you might try opening the mouth of your jack plane is little more as you extend the blade out to take a thicker shaving. Try that with Tom's idea of keeping the sole waxed and you'll cut down on friction, thus allowing you to take deeper cuts with less effort.

Aren't planes cool?

Oh--when you get comfortable with tuning your planes, take a look at a Stanley or Veritas cabinet scraper. They are surprisingly inexpensive and work like magic.

Eddy

Eddy

[Anna]

Gwyneth, thanks for the recommendation. I'll try to look up some of those books in the library and maybe buy some later on. I'm thinking I'll probably pick up a couple more planes, so I'll be needing a cabinet sooner or later anyway.

Eddy, no, the edging is not end grain. I think I misunderstood some stuff when I was ordering my planes. For some reason, I got it stuck in my head that low angle planes are generally better.

I wonder if I can use the jack plane to clean up the edgings instead.

Anyhow, I really love these planes. I didn't think I would, but I do.

[gwyneth]

Gwyneth, thanks for the recommendation. I'll try to look up some of those books in the library and maybe buy some later on. I'm thinking I'll probably pick up a couple more planes, so I'll be needing a cabinet sooner or later anyway.

There are a zillion books by Engler, many with near-identical titles and re-use of projects. As an editor, I can really appreciate it--he's had about four different publishing companies--but as a reader it's very, very annoying.

Especially when buying books, but even when using interlibrary loan.

This project was in one of his books about shop furniture...you will see what I mean about near-identical titles. I'll check the ones I have (including, to the best of my memory, "Jigs, Fixtures and Shop Furniture", "Jigs and Fixtures" and "Workbenches and Shop Furniture".)

[eddy merckx]

I wonder if I can use the jack plane to clean up the edgings instead.

I'm no plane expert either, but it seems to me that the longer the plane sole, the more control you get. I think your jack plane would work better anyway. My jack plane (a much more humble one) has gotten by far the most use so far.

Eddy

[gwyneth]

I'll check the ones I have (including, to the best of my memory, "Jigs, Fixtures and Shop Furniture", "Jigs and Fixtures" and "Workbenches and Shop Furniture".)

His hand tool cabinet project in the latter (official title "American Woodworker's Workbenches and Shop Furniture by Nick Engler", 1993) includes the camphor idea, but I think he may have gone into more detal in another of his books, but neither of the other two that I currently have.

[Pappy]

I'll address the one question nobody else has. A 45 is pretty much a collector's item.It could be used, but a lot of work and practice, both using the plane and keeping the cutters sharp!

[Anna]

I'll address the one question nobody else has. A 45 is pretty much a collector's item.It could be used, but a lot of work and practice, both using the plane and keeping the cutters sharp!

Thanks, Pappy. That's pretty much what I thought. Apparently, there's a lot of fudging and adjusting each time a cutter is installed. On a practical level, I can probably do everything and more with a router. I think when I'm better with handplanes and actually know what I'm doing, then I can start buying old stuff and try to restore them. Right now, it's probably too ambitious for me to attempt it right now.

[Jim Boyd]

Here is one storeage solution. One that gives you some room for expansion

[bthere]

That is a nice collection of planes, Jim. Also looks to be too darned organized. I much prefer to stand around and ask myself "Now where did I use that plane last...?"