Table saw fences?

[cgallery]

I've often thought of purchasing a larger saw but don't know which fence I could use.

I'd have to say the fence on the BT3K is one of its greatest assets. The rear-rail clamping is great because I use the table saw fence as my router table fence, too. And the built-in scale on the rail/fence is finely graduated, and works much better than any other fence I've seen.

It seems like most of the fences on saws these days are knock-offs of the Bies. I know that design is rugged and easy to adjust for square. But the fact that they move significantly when clamped makes them difficult to use with a built-in fence scale.

I imagine the Inca is great (haven't seen one), but that center column is a problem because it would interfere w/ router table use.

Someone mentioned Jointech was coming out with a fence that doesn't use a center column but offers similar accuracy and repeatability. But I haven't seen anything at their site.

Are there any fences as nice as the BT3K?

[rlah]

I'd have to say the fence on the BT3K is one of its greatest assets. The rear-rail clamping is great because I use the table saw fence as my router table fence, too. And the built-in scale on the rail/fence is finely graduated, and works much better than any other fence I've seen.....

Are there any fences as nice as the BT3K?

I expect you'll get good answers on this forum from more experienced members... but since I just bought the BT3Craftsman 21829, I was glad to hear your good comments on BT3K fence ... I do like the rear clamping mechanism - it seems like all high-end fences should have this. I didn't know it was all that unique, even with the 'Bies' big boys.

Good luck. rlah

[jwaterdawg]

Not sure if you meant "Inca" or "Incra". I have the latter. an Incra with the older rack and pinion fence setting. As accurate as I found the BT3 fence to be, it don't hold a candle to the Incra for both accuracy and dead-on repeatability, even between different cuts (rip, x-cut, rip, etc.). The built in micro-adjust is sweet.

And I use it with my router setup with a router on both sides of the blade so I am not sure what you meant by the center column interfering with a router setup. If you have the router bit height set above the table you're gonna run into trouble no matter what fence system you use. If the TS cut you're trying to make is the same as the distance between the TS blade and the router bit, you've got trouble.

You can use the Incra on either side of the blade and you can set it back to it's original position without having to recalibrate. I can't see ever going back to a standard fence.

[cgallery]

Not sure if you meant "Inca" or "Incra". I have the latter. an Incra with the older rack and pinion fence setting. As accurate as I found the BT3 fence to be, it don't hold a candle to the Incra for both accuracy and dead-on repeatability, even between different cuts (rip, x-cut, rip, etc.). The built in micro-adjust is sweet.

And I use it with my router setup with a router on both sides of the blade so I am not sure what you meant by the center column interfering with a router setup. If you have the router bit height set above the table you're gonna run into trouble no matter what fence system you use. If the TS cut you're trying to make is the same as the distance between the TS blade and the router bit, you've got trouble.

You can use the Incra on either side of the blade and you can set it back to it's original position without having to recalibrate. I can't see ever going back to a standard fence.

Yep, meant Incra. I have a thing of Inca tools, tool, but I means Incra.

Anyway, I prefer my current setup where the fence is between the saw blade and the router bit. That is precluded by the Incra's column. I would either have to change the way I work or turn the fence around each time I want to switch devices, which I really don't want to do.

What Incra needs to do is make a new fence w/o that column.

[SARGE..g-47]

Morning cgallery...

"But the fact that they move significantly when clamped makes them difficult to use with a built-in fence scale"... reference to Beisemeyer @ cg

I would have to personally dis-agree to "move significantly when clamped"! I have a Beisemeyer and it doesn't move period when clamped. I would not be naive enough to tell you it couldn't if you exerted extreme pressure, but under normal load it doesn't budge.

If you are concerned with it not clamping on the tail end with a router set-up, the solution would be to put a quik-clamp on that end with the main-frame of the clamp to the back of fence. Clamp that end to the TS just for insurance just for insurance. I don't fore-see a problem with that scenario.

The old original Shopfox fence did clamp on both ends, but it won't hold a candle to a Beisemeyer IMO. That's why nearly all T-square fences are copies of Beisemeyer I would think!

Regards...

[whitecobra]

You can make almost ANY fence an accurate measuring fence by adding a Wixey fence gauge to it

It is an electronic circuit board that mounts to the rail track or similar of the fence and rides along with the fence. It is accurate to 0.001 of an inch and even includes a neat feature that allows incremental measuring. You want to cut off 1" you simply pop the board on the table next to the blade hit the INC button then remove the board move the fence over until it hits -1" and you are set to cut off 1" Same for adding an inch. Pop the board on the table hit INC then move the fence out to+1" pop a new board in place and cut it the result will be 1" wider

I use it with my BT. I have double length fences so the included markings on the fence are useless this gauge is AWESOME

Dr D

[Bcrowell]

I have a VEGA fence system on my Grizzly TS. It works great locks in the front and rear. I have never had an issue with movement after it was locked in place. It stays parallel to the blade and can be adjusted very easily.
I have seen newer fence systems with a Micro Adjustment similar to what VEGA has offered for years. It is a great feature that will end the typical fence bump.
It would be worth taking a look at.

[cgallery]

Morning cgallery...

"But the fact that they move significantly when clamped makes them difficult to use with a built-in fence scale"... reference to Beisemeyer @ cg

I would have to personally dis-agree to "move significantly when clamped"!

Afternoon Sarge.

That wasn't exactly what I meant. The best way to descibe this is to illustrate what I've observed by using Bies fences on saws in stores I've visited:

When using the built-in scale on a Bies, I slide the fence to the correct position and line-up the cursor (let's say at 12"). Then I lock the fence by pressing the lever. Now if I look at the cursor, the fence may have moved up to 1/64 because it moves slightly when squaring.

So, I unlock the fence, nudge it a little, and lock it again.

W/ the BT3K fence, the fence stays much closer to square as you move it along the rail. It doesn't shift when locked.

Also, the Bies fences I've seen have had pretty bad cursors (thick) and pretty thick grads on the tapes. But that may have just been the ones I've seen.

Finally, I do need something that locks on that back rail for the purpose of using it as a router fence. I could use a clamp, but would much prefer a fence that does this for me.

[Knottscott]

I don't think the perfect fence exists, but we sure are blessed with plenty of usable choices compared to years ago. Good thing they don't build them like they used to!

My first thoughts were along the lines of Sarge's. When setup properly, the Biese design should not move significantly. If you yank on the tail it's possible to make it wiggle a little bit, but that's not representative of real world stresses and doesn't equate to significant movement when cutting. Most of the lateral pressure occurs just before the blade, so checking for movement from that location is more indicative of actual usage deflection, which should be insignificant. Even aluminum fences that use the t-square design aren't prone to significant movement that equates to inaccuracies to the cut.

There are pros and cons to any design. The Biese is a t-square design that's known for it's reliability, goof proof repeatability, strength, and ease of use. Once setup they'll lock down parallel to the blade without fail. It's the most copied and popular design in the industry. It's steel construction will withstand years of use in a shop environment. The Vega that was mentioned uses a very effective microadjust system that addresses the "bump" method you touched on. It locks down on the rail, then uses a fine adjust thread to dial in the minute adjustments. I find the bump method to work just fine, but I understand that it's a correction for lack of fine adjustment....some technique required!

The dual locking designs are known for locking down firmly on both ends, but the downside is that they're more prone to skewing or locking down out of parallel. It's a more common design on fences of lighter weight materials that lack the strength to utilize the t-square design.

The center mount systems like the Incra and Jointech offer incredible fine adjustments and repeatability, but the downside is that big tail taking up alot of space behind the fence. They're also harder to take on and off quickly. For the ultimate in fine accuracy, I don't think these systems can be beat though.

Bcrowell - I thought Vega has a hook at the tail end to prevent lifting, but not an actual clamp that grabs the rear rail...???

[Bcrowell]

You are correct the Vega fence rear lock is designed to prevent lifting. It works great with downward pressing finger boards and rollers.
I think the Beisemeyer fence is the best on the market today however I can not justify the additional cost over the Vega.
The Vega makes very accurate cuts, easy to adjust and its micro adjust feature is now getting copied by other manufactures.
Amazon has the 50” Vega under $250.00. Currently you will pay another $150.00 to get the same size Beisemeyer.

[Knottscott]

...I think the Beisemeyer fence is the best on the market today however I can not justify the additional cost over the Vega.
The Vega makes very accurate cuts, easy to adjust and its micro adjust feature is now getting copied by other manufactures.
Amazon has the 50” Vega under $250.00. Currently you will pay another $150.00 to get the same size Beisemeyer.

The Vega is a super value IMHO, and Wood Mag tends to think so too. I had the Vega in my shop for about 6 weeks and have used a friend's a few times. I'm not sure I'd trade my Biese for it, but if I were buying a new fence today I'd be leaning heavily towards the Vega for the reasons you state. It does the job very well, has some nice features, and is a good bargain!

[SARGE..g-47]

Cgallery...

My "bad" on the mis-interpretation of you comment on the Biesemeyer. I should have asked for clarification of what you meant. And you are correct that the Biesemeyer will move slightly when clamped.

As far as the scale that came with it.. I removed it and added a Starret tape which has very fine lines. All the fence guides I've seen have a cursor mounted on a piece of plastic. Every cursor I've seen will move if bumped hard enough and sometimes that can't be avoided at a TS.

So.... even thought I can set the Biesemeyer to say 12-15/16" on the scale and I am almost certain it is correct... I check the distance not once but twice with a framing square. My BIL who is a shop foreman in the machine shop at Delta Air LInes here in Atlanta took a black and yellow Stanley framing square and actually "squared" it to square. I then put a self adhesive Starret measuring tape over the stock marking on the square and I have my trued TS square. I did the same with a contractors sheet rock square so I can reach out and get big cuts when I do use sheets.

One might ask, why go to that much trouble with an accurate fence? Several reasons: I started WW in 1972 with a 50's circa Shopmate circular mounted under a piece of 2' x 4' ply on two saw-horses. Hole cut in center for blade to protrude through and saw screwed to bottom. Taped the trigger so the plug in cord became the off-on switch. Plugged in.. ON .... unplugged... OFF. Life was simple in those days! ha.. ha...

The fence was a piece of angled aluminun bar 2" by 2". You clamped it front and rear on the ply.... after you measured from the fence side blade tooth to the blade side fence. I measured from front tooth to fence and then turned the framig square over and measured from rear tooth to fence to get parallel and square.

Quite a few pieces of finished goods were done on that saw and they were done with a high degree of accurately. Not accurate because it was a super-dupper, top of line, state of the art, high tech fence as we swoon over in these forums....

It was done accurately because I followed the advice of my older uncle who was a much sought after carpenter and home builder until the late 50's when he passed away. It was advice he had gotten from his elders and they from theire elders passed down through 5000 years of Wood craftsman. My uncle never owned a power tool in his lifetime.

The advice was.... PAY EXTREME ATTENTION TO DETAL and MEASURE TWICE... CUT ONCE!

The Biesemeyer is as accurate as any fence I have en-countered. But was the cursor slightly bumped by me or someong when I was not present.. or have I in haste bumped the fence hard enough with stock or body to cause the mechanism to be slightly off?

It really doesn't matter that much to me. Give me the most tauted fence in the universe or a home-made piece of "rinny-tin-tin" and I am going to get an accurate cut because.......

I PAY ATTENTION TO DETAIL AND MEASURE TWICE AND CUT ONCE regardless of what fence I am using. That advice was passed to me and it has been passed to my off-spring and hopefully passed to theirs if this craft is too survive. Those words of wisdom generated from 5000 years of experience will never be never be obsolete regardless of all the high tech advances we have made. There is a certain of amount of resposibility the craftsman must shoulder. Put any tool in the hands of a true craftsman and he will find a way to make it work.

Sorry for mis-understanding your statement. In haste I may not have paid attention to detail and if that is the case... guilty as charged your honor! :>)

Regards and hope you find the match-up you're looking for!

[Stinger 01]

BT 3000 Fence Problems

Since I discovered BT3Central I have to say I have been shocked the last few weeks reading about how great the BT3000 fence is. I can't get it to align front to back without a major effort of measuring the distance at the front of the blade, at the back of the blade, at a "hard point on the front of the table to the fence, and at a hard point on the rear of the table to the fence. To make a simple rip it may take me several minutes to hope to get "close". I've had so many problems that I have thought of donating the saw to charity and buying something else.

I got the saw from my son and have been using it casually for several years and have just recently begun to build cabinets for my garage. That's when I found a real problem with the fence.

Any advice?

[cgallery]

Have you adjusted the fence? The articles section had an interesting article by Mr. Kirby on using a block of MDF to perform all the necessary alignments on a BT3X. See if you can find that article and use it to align your fence.