Triton or Hitachi M12v

[Stormbringer]

Directing this question to users of either. (Pappy, Rod Kirby, Brian Holbren, and Ray in the UK come to mind)

I have, brand new and unopened, a 3 1/4hp Hitachi M12V and a Woodpecker Plunglift with plate and inserts. I picked these guys up during various sales a number of months back but have been getting by so well with my DeWalt 618B3 and 616 that the need hasn't arisen. After Christmas I'll be working on cabinets for a kitchen remodel and want to have two router stations set up for the different bits. The Hitachi, obviously would handle the larger bits.

However, the Triton TRC-001, and its features, has caught my eye (thanks UK Ray ). I've read up on it and it's smaller brother quite a bit recently and am contemplating pulling the trigger on it. I have a buyer for my Hitachi and lift if I wish to sell them ($300 US). The Triton is available for $214 (US), so I would actually come out way ahead (I have another plate for the triton if I go that route).

With the Triton, I like the built in lift (winder), fine adjustment, dust collection for non-cabinet tables, and especially the one-handed above the table bit changes.

The Hitachi is a proven tried and true brute without the "extras" of the Triton. Less to go wrong?



Thus my questions:

With the Hitachi and the Plungelift, I've read that above the table bit changes are possible but it would be best to purchase the offset wrench. Do you still have to reach under the table to press the spindle lock while loosening the collet from above?


What's the difference between the TRA-001 offerred by Amazon for $270 ( http://www.amazon.com/Triton-TRA001-...3?ie=UTF8&s=hi ) and the TRC-001 offerred by Woodcraft for $215 ( http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=4519 ) Any ideas as to why the wide price difference?


I've read that a revised model of the Triton is on the horizon featuring a self releasing collet and above the table height adjustment (this would be similar to 2 1/4hp version). Any truth to this Ray?


What's the thickest plate (material) the Triton can be mounted to and still allow comfortable access to the collet for one handed bit changes? 3/8, 1/2...? Homemade tables are coming to mind


Have you felt any lag (Triton or Hitachi owners) when trying to take off too much at once?


According to Bill Esposito's site ( www.NHwoodworker.com) the orignal version of the Triton had been revised in 2004(?) to address some issues. Rod, how you making out with the bit slippage problem? I think you might have the original design?


Hitachi owners: Mine came with the "Fine Adjustment Knob". For those that have use it, what's your opinion of it? It's also available through Amazon as a $25 accessory .

Or, should I squash this entire post and just buy the Triton and keep them both?


Thanks very much mates...or is it blokes? I've been spending too much time on the Oz Triton Forum.

Sorry for the lengthy post.

Oh, and Ray, thanks for your review and the video you posted!

Greg.

EDIT: I just saw the Sommerfield spindle lock idea demostrated on www.woodshopdemos.com That kinda answers my first question.

[linear]

Greg, I feel compelled to reply because I was just using my Hitachi tonight. I hate the collet design. I have a Milwaukee mounted to a table and it uses the two wrench system--motor pops out of the body and I can change the bit mucho rapido.

I always say bad words when I'm changing bits on the Hitachi, and I wouldn't consider it in a table. The wrench that comes with it is crap, and it's 21mm which is not in any of my open-end sets. So I've been using a biggish crescent wrench with decent results. And my kids learn new vocabulary when they are around and I'm using the Green Beast.

[Stormbringer]

I have a Milwaukee mounted to a table and it uses the two wrench system--motor pops out of the body and I can change the bit mucho rapido.

Rob,

Thanks for the feedback. I really like the simplicity of the one handed bit changes with the router permanently mounted in a table (I've read sooo many comments about how until you have it, you don't realize how great it is.). I already do the motor swap out to change bits with my 2 1/4 DeWalts. Since this one is larger (heavier), and possibly attached to a lift, I prefer to leave it permanently mounted, thus, above the table bit changes would be great. Above the table height adjustment is not on the priority list.

Are there any other >3HP models that allow above the table (one handed) bit changes?

Thanks,
Greg

[RodKirby]

Greg,

I actually sold my M12v when I bought my first (large) Triton!

I bought myself a "long" wrench to tighten the collet using the 1/4" insert and have not had a problem since - a little more grunt than I like, but the Triton guy said the collet would take it.

Not sure what you mean by "lag" but I don't like the sound of it - "too much" implies too large a "bite" - not good for any router or bit.

1/2" mounting Plate will still let you get to the collet easily. Mine is acually 3/8" MDF

Triton routers rule - OK?

[Stormbringer]

Greg,

Not sure what you mean by "lag" but I don't like the sound of it - "too much" implies too large a "bite" - not good for any router or bit.

1/2" mounting Plate will still let you get to the collet easily. Mine is acually 3/8" MDF

[ATTACH]3326[/ATTACH]

I had read on one of "your" forums that some guys pushed their Makita's (very popular downunder, eh?) against the Hitachi and the Triton. They indicated the Triton lagged (bogged down the most) on some 1" (25.4mm) oak using a power feeder. Just curious if any bogging down had been experienced doing a less drastic test...say under aggressive passes.

Rod, I was thinking along the same lines for the table (actually I was considering the 1/2 mdf for the top reinforced with 3/4 beneath it. What is that you have downunder your 3/8? Did you makes some inserts or is your opening one size fits all? Pics?

BTW, I had read that the TRC vs TRA represented 110V and 220V repectively. Don't know if that's true since neither Amazon or Woodcraft mention it and I don't see either of them selling many 220volt routers here in the states.


Thanks much,
Greg

[RayintheUK]

Sorry to be a little late in responding to this, Greg - I've been away for the weekend. My daughter got married, so I thought that I ought to be there!

The Hitachi is a proven tried and true brute without the "extras" of the Triton. Less to go wrong?

Maybe - but the additional features make for far easier, more convenient and better everyday use. Also, the Triton base is circular, the Hitachi has that ridiculous single straight edge to it. I've tried both and running a router with a circular base against a guide beats a straight edge hands down any day of the week, because it will never hang up.

What's the difference between the TRA-001 offerred by Amazon for $270 ( http://www.amazon.com/Triton-TRA001-...3?ie=UTF8&s=hi ) and the TRC-001 offerred by Woodcraft for $215 ( http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx?familyid=4519 ) Any ideas as to why the wide price difference?

No idea why the price diff, sorry - must be an Amazon thing? The models are identical - the TRA001 is also known as the TRB001 in the UK. I thought that the TRC001 was the model number for Canada, but that could be fanciful thinking on my part.

I've read that a revised model of the Triton is on the horizon featuring a self releasing collet and above the table height adjustment (this would be similar to 2 1/4hp version). Any truth to this Ray?

I'd heard this too, but can't confirm it. Brian (bigsteel15) in Canada may be able to help, as I think it was he that I heard it from. All I can confirm is that there are different collet specs still in existence, depending where you are globally. For example, the 3.25HP comes with an "Hitachi-style" collet and 1/4" reducer in the UK, whereas the 2.25HP comes with two separate "self-release" collets. In Australia, both the large and smaller models come with "Hitachi-style" collets.

Have you felt any lag (Triton or Hitachi owners) when trying to take off too much at once?

No, but then I'd never try to bog a router down in that way. All I can tell you is that it's handled every single bit I've thrown at it, including 3" horizontal panel-raising jobbies. It definitely seems to have more grunt than both the big Hitachi, the big Trend and the big DeWalt. Haven't used the Festool, so no comparison - sorry.

According to Bill Esposito's site ( www.NHwoodworker.com) the orignal version of the Triton had been revised in 2004(?) to address some issues. Rod, how you making out with the bit slippage problem? I think you might have the original design?

I've obviously heard about slippage, but never experienced it. The Hitachi-style collet takes some getting used to because of its coarse thread pitch and the resultant small amount of movement/high amount of force required to close it effectively. Once properly tightened, however, it's rock solid. I've never had a bit move, even 1/4" shank bits in the reducer.

Or, should I squash this entire post and just buy the Triton and keep them both?

If you're doubtful, that's the way to go - you'll have the chance to try the Triton but could presumably still sell the Hitachi and lifter.

Thanks very much mates...or is it blokes? I've been spending too much time on the Oz Triton Forum.

No worries!

Sorry for the lengthy post.

It's short compared to most of mine!

Ray.

[Pappy]

Couple of quick answers/comments.

I've never experienced any bog or lag with the Hitachi but, like the rest, I'v e never pushed it that hard.

With the router raised all the way and the rings removed, I can slide the collet lock into position and loosen the collet with the stock wrench from above the table. The offset wrench would make it easier, though.

I started with a Rosseau plate and switched to the plunge lift. What sold me on it was the aluminum plate and the variety of insert rings available.

[Knottscott]

The one handed above table bit changing and other above table features are a real treat for me...maybe not for everyone, but others seem to like the convenience too. Last spring I picked up a Freud FT1700 and a Milwaukee 5625 to replace my Freud FT2000E. I like the above table features so much that I usually use the FT1700 in the router table and not the more powreful and more heralded 5625. There's less power, but it's still adequate even for panel raising if I take lighter passes.

It sounds like the Triton has some great features too, though I've never used one. If you don't do alot with 3" bits, you'll probably love the features of the Triton over the M12V...features like that just bring a culture change to table routing....it'll make you wonder why all table routers don't work like that! If you need to do alot of bull work, stick with the big router. I think Freud's new FT3000 is out now for ~ $280....that'd give the best of both worlds.

http://www.epinions.com/content_228357738116

[jwaterdawg]

The collet extender (Xtreme Xtension) although not cheap (~$65 shipped) I find to be a nice add-on for using a plunge router with the woodpecker plunge-lift. I currently have a 625 mounted on the lift so I've never used it directly on my M12V. It also allows for one-handed bit changes and you get plenty of clearance from the lift plate so no busted knuckles. Just some food for thought.

[kwgeorge]

First I will say that I have no experience with the Triton router whatsoever. As a matter of fact I don’t even think I ever seen one in person so with that I will not comment on it at all. What I will comment on however is the Hitachi since I do own one and have been using it for maybe two years now and it has been in 3 different tables so far. Now mine is dedicated to the table and I have other routers to use outside of the table. I guess I am confused on the statements being made about difficulty in bit changing. Maybe it is one of those things where I did not know it was supposed to be difficult so I never noticed. To change bits I simply remove the router plate ring, crank the lift up to its highest, reach in with my left index finger and push the lock mechanism and go after it with the wrench. No issues at all and I have used this router and lift setup a lot. I like the collet as it is very accurate with little to no runout and locks the bit in without having to crank it down instead I just get it quite snug. The router is pretty much vibration free and has all the power to do what I want.

Now I am not trying to sell you on this router at all and in the end the decision on what to buy is yours and yours alone. I am rather just relating my experiences with a tool I own and use.

Ken

[Knottscott]

First I will say that I have no experience with the Triton router whatsoever. As a matter of fact I don’t even think I ever seen one in person so with that I will not comment on it at all. What I will comment on however is the Hitachi since I do own one and have been using it for maybe two years now and it has been in 3 different tables so far. Now mine is dedicated to the table and I have other routers to use outside of the table. I guess I am confused on the statements being made about difficulty in bit changing. Maybe it is one of those things where I did not know it was supposed to be difficult so I never noticed. To change bits I simply remove the router plate ring, crank the lift up to its highest, reach in with my left index finger and push the lock mechanism and go after it with the wrench. No issues at all and I have used this router and lift setup a lot. I like the collet as it is very accurate with little to no runout and locks the bit in without having to crank it down instead I just get it quite snug. The router is pretty much vibration free and has all the power to do what I want.

Now I am not trying to sell you on this router at all and in the end the decision on what to buy is yours and yours alone. I am rather just relating my experiences with a tool I own and use.

Ken

Ken - The newer generation of table router features like those on the FT1700, and sounds like the Triton also, have a collet that protrudes above the table and through the trim ring allowing use of the normal wrench, no removal of the trim ring is necessary, and in the case of the FT1700, there is an auto-collet lock for one hand changes from above to table without doing anything more than raising it. Your method doesn't sound like a royal pain, but I'm easily distracted so the less actions required to accomplish a task, the better!

[Stormbringer]

Couple of quick answers/comments.

With the router raised all the way and the rings removed, I can slide the collet lock into position and loosen the collet with the stock wrench from above the table. The offset wrench would make it easier, though.

To change bits I simply remove the router plate ring, crank the lift up to its highest, reach in with my left index finger and push the lock mechanism and go after it with the wrench.

Ken

Thanks guys. This is the explanation/clarification I've been looking for....that the collet lock is accessible from above. Woodshopdemos.com mentions having to make a pretty slick contraption to push the lock latch closed in order to use it in a table http://www.woodshopdemos.com/cmt-jr7.htm.

Thanks,
Greg

[jackellis]

I have an M12V mounted under the table on my BT3100. It's not exactly a piece of cake to change bits but I've figured out how to do it without too much swearing. Slide the collet lock with left hand , apply pressure to wrench with right hand, let go of collet lock, use both hande to carefully push the wrench and lock or unlock the collet. Wrench is about two inches too short but I can still manage to use it from under the table.

[vaking]

Greg,
I have a pretty basic setup with Hitachi M12V. There was a time I used that router in hands but found it a little too big for hands. Now it lives in my table with springs removed. I do not have a lift and use original fine adjustment knob. It can have one disadvantage (not for me fortunately). With router mounted in table properly the knob is located towards the back of the table. My table is not a cabinet style, I have access from the back and often use it. If your table has a cabinet - it probably will be uncomfortable.
I do have a bench wrench from Marc - very nifty and comfortable thing. I never bothered installing the rod for locking the collett - never felt the need. The original lever is close enough.
I never tried Triton but my understanding is:
Hitachi is well made but basic router. It is inexpensive and is a very good choice if you are content with basic setup. If you want bells and whistles - then you will need a lift and bent wrench. With those extras it becomes more expensive than an advanced router like Triron or Freud. So if you want my advice - either dump the lift and stay with basic Hitachi or dump Hitachi with the lift and buy a Triton.

[Stormbringer]

Greg,

I do not have a lift and use original fine adjustment knob.

Thanks Alex. How would you rate that adjustment knob...I mean is it a hassle and a half to raise the collet all the way up for bit changes?

Do you know the height change with one revolutuion of the knob?

Last one, what plate are you using? I'm wondering if some plates have larger openings (with larger reducing inserts), thus providing easier access to the locking mechanisms from above. Obviously, a plate that has a 3 1/2 inch opening would provide much easier access than say one with a 2 3/4 hole in it. Duh. I'm wondering if those that have trouble accessing the collet lock have less access to it? ...Or are all plate openings a standard size?

Real last one, To theose with the lift: do you still have to use the plunge lock lever or does the lift mechanism keep everything in place tight?

Thanks guys,
Greg

PS. Ray could you please post the link to the video demonstration again for those that might not be familiar with the Triton and it's features. I can't find the thread that you had put them in recently and I'm sure there are some out there who have been following this thread and would like to see the features mentioned here demonstrated. I know I would Thanks