Any welders out there?

[bmyers]

I've been looking at some pretty cheap HF welders lately. There are different types of course but I know nothing of welding other than the fact that it's like titebond for metal...

What would I want to weld? Rockers panels on my old Chevelle, a square tube frame for a worktable, my neighbors car doors shut (not the good neighbor, the other one). Various things. Basically what does an arc welder weld, what does a mig welder weld, tig, etc? Are there are some decent welding websites out there I should look? Can you point me in a direction?


Thx,
Bill

[maxparot]

Arc- cheap welder, hard to master techniques, mostly structural steel

Mig- Moderate welder price, Easy to use, fast learning curve, Steel, aluminum, stainless steel

Tig- Expensive welder, takes both knowledge and practice to master, handles most metals

For the type of work you would do on a car Mig is the standard today.
A decent inexpensive welder can do reasonable quality body and frame work. Flux core will get you by (it's like the easy arc welder) Full MIG is cleaner better welds(less grinding and sanding)

[Thom2]

This is an area that I just recently started to get into, I'll give you a brief rundown of what I've learned so far.

1.) Arc Welder (AC style) - 125 amp is good to about 1/4" in single pass, 225 amp is good to 1/2" in single pass. A decent used Lincoln AC-225 can be picked up for under $100 normally and with a nice selection of rods will handle just about any steel that you'll ever throw at it.

2.) Flux Core Mig Welder - a unit that cannot be converted for gas use is fairly inexpensive and flux core is suitable for heavier guage sheet metal as well as dirty stock and welding outdoors in a breeze. Flux wire normally costs 3-4 times as much as solid wire and takes a lot more wire to lay in a decent bead. Flux core burns a lot hotter than solid wire with gas, therefore don't plan to weld thin sheet metal with this process.

3.) Mig with gas - Gonna have to make a choice here, 110v or 220v unit. Personally I feel that once you're getting into this category of welder, you may as well bite the bullet and have a 220v unit that you'll be able to grow into. I personally have an older HF 110v 120amp gas/flux mig that I got from my grandfather. To put it bluntly, it's been nothing but a PITA everytime I've tried to use it. It does get the job done and was cheap, but I'm looking to replace it with a Millermatic 175. Gas bottles are a one-time investment and ussually run $75 for a 20cf bottle and $119'ish for a 40cf bottle, refills of C-25 mix run around the $17 mark. For thin sheet metal work, this is gonna be the way to go. The smaller quality 135'ish amp units can handle up to about 3/16" steel in a single pass and operate on 110v current. a Hobart 135 or Lincoln 135 will probably run between the $400 and $500 mark, add $150 for tank. The sky's the limit from there.

4.) TIG - haven't gone there, don't know that I want to. Mig alone is costing me enough money right now.

5.) Aluminum Welding - RUN ...... DON'T WALK ...... RUN FAR FAR AWAY!!!, don't even think about doing a decent job of welding aluminum on a hobbiest budget. Aluminum is actually what I had in mind when I originally bought my welders and I've quickly learned that welding 1/4" aluminum is going to require shelling out nearly $1k.

As I said, I'm new to this and I'm sure some more experienced folk will offer some more insight, but this is what I've learned so far. If you want some decent reading and to learn from some pros, check out www.weldingweb.com . They seem to have a pretty good crew there, pretty comparable to this bunch.

HTH a little

[mpauly]

I've not welded in quite a while, but from my experience, I'll say 'Ditto' to what Thom2 said. For home/auto use, a Mig is probably your best, easiest and best bang for the buck choice.

For sheet metal, try to stay away from flux core and spring for a model with a gas valve or at least the ability to add one. You can try flux core to start, but you'll soon learn it doesn't leave the cleanest welds on thinner metal where heat and dwell time become issues. At least having the ability to add the gas shielding later gives you more flexibility and leaves a cleaner weld. Besides simplifying the setup, flux core has one advantage while welding outside as wind doesn't affect the flux shielding nearly as much as straight gas.

As for 110v vs 220v, it really depends on how you'll use it. The 110v is usually cheaper, more portable (can plug into any socket with enough juice) and will be good enough for thin sheet metal up to 3/16" mild steel. It will likely have a lower duty cycle than a 220v (10-15% vs 30%, typically) though. I'd personally stick with the 110v unless you see yourself welding a lot of thick steel for longer periods of time.

As for makes, I've only had experience with Miller and Lincoln (usually 220v) and Lincoln Arc. Partial to the miller, but the cost is greater.

Just my opinion.

Michael

[bigsteel15]

I'm not a welder but work in a welding shop.
We do not use fluxcore in our shop.
It's not that it isn't any good, apparently it is a very good product, but it takes a very good welder to produce a quality weld with fluxcore.
All of our customers (oil companies) have "flux core shall not be used on pressure containing parts" in their specs.
I doubt you'll be doing any pressure containing parts, but you get the idea.

Oh, and stay away from hay sheds!!!

[jangus]

Flux core should not be used on pressure rated welds due to the fact that it is very easy to get "worm trails" through the weld if conditions are not met. That would be, no breeze, clean material, and a qualified welder, and even these dont gaurantee success. I've had welds show up with worm tracks due to flux core wire that was old, and had gotten moisture into the flux core.
I have welded using all the process, mig, tig, arc, even oxy/acetylene.
My number one choice, budget permiting, would be a tig welder with a cooler attachment, but thats big money. I will echo others about using a mig with a gas hookup. That is simply the best garage setup there is, especially for thim sheet metal work on a budget. I still, and always will, prefer tig welding.
But then again, I'm spoiled. I worked as a fabricator for 13 years, and have become used to having it at my disposal. I'm now employed as a CADD for a metal fabrication company, and I still manage to get out and do a little welding for myself from time to time.

[Stormbringer]

I just bought this one two weeks ago from the Borg. $501 after tax.
It received good reviews on some of the welding sites. Any opinions? I still have two weeks to return it if need be.





Got some serious welding chores? Then you're going to want a serious welder. Lincoln Electric's Weld-Pak 3200HD handles a huge spectrum of flux-cored or MIG welding jobs -- from auto-body repairs to farm fixes to around the home chores.

You just can't buy a 120V welder with a more versatile range! The Weld-Pak 3200HD comes ready to weld mild steel with self-shielded flux-cored wire right out of the box. Also included is virtually everything you need to MIG weld mild steel. Just add a cylinder of shielding gas. Rounding out the package is a welding handshield, instructional video and undercarriage.

The convenient mild steel procedure chart inside the wire access door guides you to all the appropriate welder settings for the job at hand. The Weld-Pak 3200HD has a 25-135 amp output and welds up to 5/16 In. steel using flux-cored wire. The unit plugs into a 120V (20 amp) outlet. It comes with a 3 year warranty on parts and labor (90 days warranty on gun and cable).


• Welds up to 5/16 In. steel• Output range 25-135 Amps DC• 3-year warranty parts and labor (90 days gun and cable assembly)• Input voltage: 115 Volts

[vanguard]

I have a Lincoln Weldpak 100HD converted to gas. I like it very well for a beginner. I would recommend a HF autodarkening mask.

[ted van halen]

MIG is the way to go for the average guy's shop. I've got a Hobart 135(I think that's the model). It's a small 120V unit. comes w/ gas valve. I popped for a small bottle as I don't weld a lot but when I do, the gas makes it a lot cleaner. It'll burn 3/16" stock in one pass but I rarely burn anything over 1/8.

TED

[Thom2]

Bill,

One of these packages might be worth taking a look at for entry level/hobbiest use.

http://store.weldingdepot.com/cgi/we...WE6523P-8.html

http://store.weldingdepot.com/cgi/we...WE6524P-8.html

I've looked seriously at the Clarke's myself, but after some long hard thought, I've pretty much resolved to purchasing a Miller or at the very least a Hobart 180. I didn't do any hard-core research on these Clarke units, but the price alone had me very interested and if I didn't already own a HF 110v unit, I probably would have been more inclined to give one a shot.

Another thought that I want to pass along is for you to pick up a copy of the Haynes TechBook Welding Manual ( part # 10445 or 2110) (ISBN 1 56392 110 3). I have a copy of this and while it's a little dated, I think it does a really decent job of covering the basics of each process for a beginner.



Thom

[Thom2]

Stormbringer,

IINM, that's the same unit as a 135, but with a different label. These are supposedly really decent entry-level/mid-level units. The specs are overstated according to EVERYTHING that I've researched, these units can only come close to welding 5/16" at full throttle and only with flux core. There's just not enough guts to weld 5/16" in a single pass with solid wire and gas. While I won't say there's anything wrong with flux-core, it's very irritating that they overstate/mislead you on the specs. Retail specs on welders seem to be going very much the same was as specs on compressors <insert grumble icon here>


Thom

[Pappy]

I have a cheap flux core welder that does the trick, but just barely. To do it over again, I would go with a 110 gas/flux core MIG. Hobart, Miller, and Lincoln all make decent rigs. We did a LOT of work on an old Firebird I had with a Lincoln 110 gas unit.

Something I learned recently from an article in Classic Trucks, with thinner material, drag the weld behind the gun to get less penetration and more filler. On thicker stock, push the weld for less fill and deeper penetration.

[Tom Slick]

I do a fair amount of welding and the lincoln unit is the minimum sized/quality mig welder you should consider for autobody work. you should run it with an argon/co2 blend. flux core or straight co2 will be too hot for autobody work. with autobody work you want the welds to be really cold for 2 reasons; #1 is to keep from burning holes in the body and #2 is to keep from warping the material. the best way is to do a series of tack welds and not to work in one spot for very long. move to various spots on the panel as you work to keep from getting one spot too hot.

I spent a few extra $$ and bought a hobart handler 175 so that I could weld 1/4" comfortably. Miller and Lincoln sell similar units with additional features.

everything I have read here so far is good advise.

[leehljp]

Man am I back in the stone ages. I learned on arc welding and do it today. Of course I don't do aluminum. I have a couple of hobby welders for small frame work. I guess cause I learned real young (8 or 9) it has always been easy for me. 'Course, when I learned, it was a "have to" thing out on our farm.

[JimD]

I have used an arc welder but currently do not have access to one (i.e. haven't bought my own). I can do it but do not want to get graded on the appearance. For the little bit of joining of steel that I do now I either get a friend to weld it for me or I braze. You can braze thin and/or small stuff (say up to the size of 3/8 threaded rod to a nut) with a mapp gas torch. Just heat it to cherry red and it's like soldering with bronze. For bigger pieces, I have an old benzomatic torch that uses the little $8 bottles of oxygen. You screw on a bottle of oxygen and one of propane or mapp and you can braze some fairly large metal (but forget about reusing the oxygen bottle, at least with my torch it leaks out quickly even with the valve closed). Brazing is not as strong as welding but it's easier for people like me that don't do it much. It is also strong enough for some structural purposes. With a little oxygen/acyteline (sp?) setup, you could join 1/4 steel.

Jim