Cabinet Depth?

[chopnhack]

LOL were twins.

I really don't even know what will end up being stored in there... Garage organization and shop setup should be someone's profession because its certainly not my favorite topic, I have belabored it almost as much as some other folks on this site!

The mindset is that I should have ample space because once its built, that's it. I am thinking that no matter what I will need a step stool to reach the upper shelf. Items at the back will need the same step stool approach.

Of course there is also merit for the 15 3/4" depth for the good use of materials..... brain pain!

Did I mention that I was thinking of making these units by simply butting, gluing and pocket screwing 3/4" prefinished birch ply? Frameless cabinet style with doors to be determined.

[cabinetman]

Did I mention that I was thinking of making these units by simply butting, gluing and pocket screwing 3/4" prefinished birch ply? Frameless cabinet style with doors to be determined.

You won't have a glue joint with prefinished plywood. So, my suggestion would be as long as you are game to use pocket screws (which I don't), butt your pieces, and install coarse thread screws perpendicularly (either through the ends, or through the bottoms/tops (your decision).

If you pilot and countersink, and bump tighten the screw, you can achieve a strong butt joint. For any concerns about the looks of the screw heads, you could make wood plugs, or use screw caps.

I would do it differently. I would use the same technique that I use for Melamine cabinets. With that sheet stock, I just dado an ⅛" depth and use glue. The joint can be clamped and fasteners added.

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[chopnhack]

I was going to scuff sand the edges to get the glue to stick, do you think that still wont adhere?

I thought the pocket screw joint was stronger since it was at an angle, but I see your point! I like the idea of dadoing, but I was looking to skip as much machining as possible so simply butting and screwing will be even faster. I might shoot a few finish nails for registration before screwing together, might help with alignment instead of clamping everything.

[Dal300]

I dadoed, rabbeted, glued and used pocket hole screws.

I used a 1/4" dado, glue and then used 1" coarse pocket hole screws.

One of the cabinets had 6 lawn tractor batteries in it for 2 years and no sags.

[cabinetman]

I was going to scuff sand the edges to get the glue to stick, do you think that still wont adhere?

You would have to take the finish down to bare wood. The process would be a waste of time to me. If that's your option, I would just forget the glue and butt the pieces and screw together.

I thought the pocket screw joint was stronger since it was at an angle, but I see your point!

That's the reason they aren't as strong. Consider this scenario...for an upper cabinet, if your floor butts into the end, and a screw is driven straight in from the end, the floor is supported by the fastener. At one time I set aside threads by those that had problems with pocket screws, or problems with the jig. I was intending to use them as a reference for users of the jig.

Conversely, the problem threads involving dadoes and rabbets as a form of assembly, were mostly threads about varying plywood thickness, and there were very few.

I like the idea of dadoing, but I was looking to skip as much machining as possible so simply butting and screwing will be even faster. I might shoot a few finish nails for registration before screwing together, might help with alignment instead of clamping everything.

Machining dadoes and rabbets can be very fast and very accurate. To use a joint like that IMO is like insurance, as predictable as they are. I do most all dadoes and rabbets with a hand held router and a jig you can make in your shop.

In either case, you will have an unfinished plywood edge to deal with. I've used this rabbeting technique, which provides both good glue surfaces, and solves having the bare edge problem.

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[chopnhack]

I've seen your recommendation for doing it this way before and have tried it. I didn't have very good success, but then again the plywood I used at the time was borg imported ply that was not uniform thickness and after cutting started to waffle a bit so I had a really hard time getting a uniform depth. It was very frustrating... I also had issues with breaking off the little 1/8" tab when handling in the shop - that would be my issue though

The new ply I have is still imported but its calibrated so that should make things a lot easier. I was going to get the prefinished both sides ply, but might go with just one side and use the finished side for the inside, my reasoning is that since almost none of the outside will show when looking dead on might as well just use if for the inside. I am going frameless on this project.

Do you think not having a finish on the other side will eventually cause the plywood to start to "move"?

If I tried your method again I would use the dado'ed pieces with the thin skin left on for the tops and bottoms, that way I can screw the cab sides with the thicker side dado into the larger "edge" left from the thin skin dado. That way the weight is resting on the edges of the screws - shear strength vs. screwed in from the bottom - pull out strength (much weaker).

Sounds like a jig is in my future construction plans. I think I have some other 3/4" ply laying around I can test out and see how it works before I order the good stuff. I'll let you know.

[cabinetman]

Do you think not having a finish on the other side will eventually cause the plywood to start to "move"?

More than likely not. I finish all the sides for other reasons. When I carry my boxes in, the client sees the product. It just looks more "finished" when there are no bare sides. It doesn't look like I "skimped". You could just coat the finished ends.

If I tried your method again I would use the dado'ed pieces with the thin skin left on for the tops and bottoms, that way I can screw the cab sides with the thicker side dado into the larger "edge" left from the thin skin dado. That way the weight is resting on the edges of the screws - shear strength vs. screwed in from the bottom - pull out strength (much weaker).

The image I linked you wasn't oriented right (needed to be rotated). So, I fixed it. This is what works. This would be a bottom right corner (upper cabinet...front elevation).


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[mpc]

Another way to add strength to quickly assembled garage cabinets... use a 1x2 cleat on the wall underneath the cabinets. This then gives the bottom shelf a bit of extra support, relieving the back and side panels a bit. it also helps with the cabinet installation --> it holds the cabinet weight until you can get fasteners through the back or whatever.

Then, to make it look more professional rather than "I just went quick-n-dirty" you can put that cleat to other uses:
* mount a magnetic strip to it to support tools
* use screw-in hooks or pound in a few angled nails to hang tools from.
* It can become the upper part of a frame to hold pegboard.

I have some large wall-mounted cabinets that served around 15 years in my old garage. They were built before I had larger capacity tools. Stock = Home Depot style pre-glued/laminated pine shelving material for the top, bottom, and sides. And a quarter inch piece of rough plywood for the back. All held together with butt joints, glue, and screws. The top & bottom fit between the side panels so the screws run parallel to the floor, putting them into the shear mode. The cabinets are about 16 inches deep (that HD pine stuff was not consistent in size) and 6 or 8 feet long (3 different boxes, 2 sizes) with one vertical divider splitting the span in each box. They stat on wall-mounted cleats and had screws through the back into wall studs. And I had them stuffed full - one with nothing but books/magazines - and they never showed signs of failure. Cleaned up plus a bit of touch-up paint and they're in use now in my new shop.

Instead of "scuff sanding" to remove the finish, another quick technique is to use a shoulder hand plane. Just clamp a straight edge across the board, run a knife cut to sever the upper layer of the workpiece (reduces tearout), and then use a shoulder plane to make a quickie shallow rabbet to get past the finish. Or use an actual rabbeting plane if you have one. About the same work as hand sanding/scuffing would be. Just an option to doing the same thing with a router. I know... hand planes in plywood can be messy but I've had good luck with a sharp plane iron set to take thin shavings. I wouldn't want to hand plane through several plies - that'd be a job for the router or dado stack. But quickly removing the finish and outer layer of the plywood is just as fast with a hand plane.

mpc

[chopnhack]

C-man, are you using an 1/8" or a 1/16" for your rabbet? Do you glue and screw or glue and clamp waiting for the glue to set up some before screwing together? I assume that you predrill and counterbore.

Thanks MPC for your input, I have used the ledger before and its a good system. For the garage cabs that I have in mind, I was going to put a sheet of plywood on the wall to later use as a mounting point for any and everything without worrying about finding studs. The upper cabs could sit on this while being installed.

[cabinetman]

C-man, are you using an 1/8" or a 1/16" for your rabbet? Do you glue and screw or glue and clamp waiting for the glue to set up some before screwing together? I assume that you predrill and counterbore.

A 1/16" is all that's necessary for hardwood plywoods. It's thin enough to just file off the overhang. I have just clamped it up in both directions, and have used brad nails.

For Melamine, I use 1/8", to get to a good glue surface for dadoes and rabbets, which is much better than just a butt joint. Fasteners are used.

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