New Shop Layout

[crokett]

So I am finally starting to think about how I want the shop laid out. The things I do know: Most of the storage will be old kitchen cabinets, uppers and lowers. I want them closer to the front doors since when I go in to get tools to use around the house I don't want to be walking to the back of the shop. Assuming cabinets on both sides of the 24' walls, this should give me ~12' open space between them, correct? I don't care about the windows in the back or along the left side. They don't need to be accessible. The ones on the left side will eventually be covered by a lean-to for firewood storage anyway.

I wil have two tablesaws. My Ryobi and my brother's PM66. I plan on them sitting at each end of an assembly/outfeed table. The shop came with one that has a 2x4 frame for legs and 3/4 ply for a top. Should I make the top a torsion box? Should I take the time now to wire circuits under the floor for the saws? Or can these drop down from the ceiling?

The bigger tools/lumber storage will be towards the back. I am not sure if I will have enough space to keep the planer and jointer out in the middle of the floor. I am loosely planning that the first 12' of the shop will be cabinets and the tablesaws. the back half will be planer, jointer, bandsaw and lumber storage, more or less. Any suggests for arranging the tools? My brother is also loaning me a 14" bandaw. How much clearance do I typically need for one?

[LarryG]

So your building's dimensions must be around 16' x 24'? Actually, assuming standard stud construction, if those are the outside dimensions the interior will be about 8" less each way -- a significant difference for a building this size.

Dedicating floor space to two table saws is usually done only in much larger shops. Why do you want two (other than the fact you already have them)? Some people talk about a dedicated table saw for dados but unless you're in a production setting, the necessary floor space cannot be justified. If you're not cutting the same width dado every time you'll have to break the stack down anyway, so you might as well do that on the primary saw.

Yes, definitely put the power under the floor; absolutely do not drop cords from the ceiling. Overhead drops are a PITA under the best of circumstances but in a small shop, you'll be forever snagging them as you swap long boards end-for-end.

If it were my shop, I would probably put the two "halves" exactly the opposite to what you propose. Having the cabinets, table saw(s), and assembly/outfeed bench up front will make this area constricted, making it more difficult to bring materials in and haul them all the way to the back of the shop. I'd put the material storage, and the largest piece of open floor space, up front near the entrance. Putting the cabinets in the back does mean more steps when fetching a tool for a job in the house. But would you rather make those steps while you're carrying your cordless drill, or a 4x8 sheet of plywood?

Tool layout is not hugely critical since most everything is going to have to be on wheels anyway, due to the shop's small size. As long as your provide plenty of electrical outlets, for maximum flexibility, you can periodically shift the major tools around until you find the basic arrangement that works best. If you have a dust collector, roll it around and use a hose during this phase. After things settle down, you can plumb the shop with hard ducting.

Clearance for a band saw depends entirely on what you'll be doing. If you're going to be resawing 12' lumber, you'll need to position the saw halfway along one of the long walls. If you need to cut out a 48" round table, you'll need four feet out in front of the blade. If you're exposing tenons on table stretchers, you'll need three or four feet of infeed room and nothing on the outfeed side. And etc.

Lastly, and this is off the top of my head without putting pencil to paper and making a sketch ... long, narrow shops usually work best when the major tools are lined up along one of the long walls, so they'll have the most infeed/outfeed room, parallel to the shop's longer axis. You might look at putting all your cabinets along one of the long walls, rather than facing each other, and then lining up the big tools on the wall opposite. In this scenario, the right end of the table saw(s) would go hard against the wall. If the PM66 has a 50" fence system, it'll be about seven feet long overall; this would still allow about six feet of aisle space between its left end and the facing cabinets. That's wide enough to roll out the planer or jointer for use and *still* have plenty of room to walk past.

[chopnhack]

++on Larry's comments. It awesome how much you can learn from someone who has worked in or setup shops numerous times...kudos Larry. The only thing I was going to say was the power outlets in the floor is a must since you will be able to do it, just check with your local code and building inspectors to see if you are required to meet the residential or the stricter code used in commercial settings since this will be a shop environment. They might want you to use dust proof/spill proof type floor outlets or (**** if they do) outlet box on a riser.

[poolhound]

Not sure if you have online access to FWW but this article shows some layout ideas to maximize space.

this shop is much smaller than yours (9x18) but might yeild some ideas. If you dont have access you may have a "friend" who has a copy

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworki....aspx?id=29505

[crokett]

Larry, thanks for the comments. They are most helpful. One question, putting the TS against the wall like that limits the length of cut on that side. Have you ever had a saw set like this and did you have any problems?

Chop, the outlets would not be in the floor. I put one in the floor of our living room and too much dust and dirt gets in it. Somewhere there will be a bench/assembly table in the middle of the shop so I can walk all the way around a project. That is an absolute must for me. I couldn't do it in the first shop and can't in the current basement one and do not want to have to rotate things for glueup or finishing any more. So the outlets would be in the sides of the bench.

Jon, thanks for the link. There is some good info there.

[LarryG]

Putting the right end of the table saw against a wall won't limit the rip capacity. If the workpiece hits the wall, it's because you've already exceeded the capacity of the rip fence (i.e., the fence would have to be off the saw, therefore you cannot make a rip cut).

It will, however, limit the length you can crosscut on that side, whether with a miter gauge or a sled. Two possible solutions: (1) flip the workpiece to the other side of the blade; (2) use a CMS instead, assuming the stock is narrow enough. One reason for putting the right end of the saw against a wall is so you'll have the maximum amount of room available on the left, using Solution #1.

The main reason I know to not put the right end of a table saw against a wall is if you have a router in the extension wing. It's possible to use the router by feeding only from the front of the saw -- Keith Leonard, aka drumpriest, does this -- but it's better to be able to walk around that end. Not imperative, but better.

In the shop I dismantled three months ago, I had my PM2000 so placed:



Over the two-plus years I was in that building, it was never a problem. I may end up using the same arrangement in the new shop I'm currently designing. I'd prefer not to, but only because I want to be able to walk past the right end of the cabinet saw to get to other tools, not because it limits the cabinet saw itself. (I will not have a router in my extension wing.)

[crokett]

When I was thinking limited capacity, I was thinking cross cuts, not rip cuts. I would put the BT on the same walll but turned around so the left side was against the wall. That is whre my router will be mounted and that way I can use most of the capacity for the router.

Oh and to answer a question, 16x24 is the outside dimensions, yes. And small??? That is a palace compared to what I am used to. 10x12 in my first place and about 14x13 now.

[LarryG]

All right, using your BT as your router table would be one reason to have two table saws. You could also set up the saw portion of the BT as a disc sander -- an idea I've toyed with for mine, given that I've never gotten around to selling it.

You can put the left end of the BT against the wall, or you could shift the rails and move the router to the left end. Pros and cons both ways.

Re: shop size ... okay, point taken. I have more or less settled on 26x32 for the footprint of my new shop and will confess that working with those dimensions for so long has spoiled me.

One additional thought about tool layout. I'm not a fan of mobile bases, but despite my new shop's projected dimensions I will still have a lot of tools on wheels. In designing the layout, I am trying hard to adhere to a strict policy of never having to move more than one thing in order to use any given tool. Either I will move that one tool itself (i.e., roll it out of its parking space so I can use it), or I will move something else in order to provide access to or clearance for the tool I actually want to use. You might want to doodle up some sketches of possible tool layouts with that approach in mind.

[JR]

David, you would do well to start using Grizzly's on-line layout tool. It has icons for all manner of tools and cabinets, and you can save multiple versions. It will prove helpful in both this initial planning phase - just noodling through the options - as well as when you get down to the short strokes and need to really have a sharp pencil to put everything together.

FWIW - I'd want to make maximum use of natural light, particularly for final assembly and finishing. Your idea for a walk-around bench is a great idea. Putting it near a window would also be good. This also implies the location for hand tools and clamps. I guess this is another reason to put the cabinets on the wall that you say will not have windows.

I might also suggest finding a wall for hanging jigs and forms, if possible. I often lament the lack of wall space in my shop, particularly when I read articles showing the shops of experienced craftsmen with jigs all over the place.

JR

[crokett]

I'd forgotten about the Grizzly took. Thanks for the reminder. I set the shop up and put the door and windows on it. Now I can start playing with layout.

Larry, having the saw set up like you describe opens some possibilities. I think I can get more useable space by setting it up so the infeed on long cuts goes out one of the front windows. The guy I got the shop from set the front windows up like he did so he could stick long pieces out for the miter saw. I would need outfeed room but I expect to have an outfeed table and my BT in that space anyway.

Space to hang jigs is another must-have for me. I haven't bothered making too many jigs simply because I don't currently have space to store them.

[jackellis]

The one thing I did not do is put power outlets in the floor of my new shop on the advice of the builder. Since I'm below grade and all of the floors contain warm water in tubes for heat, a leak anywhere could get pretty exciting pretty fast. I will make sure cords are out of the way and all of my tools will remain on wheels because I can see the need to move them, even in a 20x20 room.