Shop-Vac as DC

[JR]

The argument between DC and shop vac is strange because I think most people that have a DC will also admit to using the shop vac quite a bit (for sanding, or with a router table). The DC won't do it all, and neither will the shop vac.

Over this past year I've made some upgrades and mods to my DC system. I now use it almost exclusively for primary dust collection, even from my sanders. In fact, my Porter-Cable 5" ROS, a real beast, performs almost dust-free with this setup.

My shopvac has been relegated to cleanup chores.

JR

[LinuxRandal]

One more thing, when you do move up to a dust collector, if you use your shop for anything else (metal in particular) use the shop vac as the floor sweep setup. It will keep anything sparkable out of the wood dust/chips.

[LarryG]

I could've written what JR wrote. As shown in Photos 7 and 8 of this thread, my DC system is reduced down to a 2" blast gate at a point near my assembly table. I connect a shop vac hose to this for dust collection for my hand-held power tools, and sometimes for vacuuming the floor, too. As I say in my last reply, the big DC does as good a job of vacuuming as the shop vac does itself.

(But I'll confess that I don't do that much, as the hose I have is too short to reach all points in the shop. Like JR, I do most of my general clean-up by rolling the vac around the shop.)

[cgallery]

Over this past year I've made some upgrades and mods to my DC system. I now use it almost exclusively for primary dust collection, even from my sanders. In fact, my Porter-Cable 5" ROS, a real beast, performs almost dust-free with this setup.

My shopvac has been relegated to cleanup chores.

JR

Interesting. What size dust port is on that sander?

I can honestly say that using my vac, sanding with my smaller PC sander (with 1" port), that sanding is truly dust free. I've even tried sanding in the dark, using a spotlight to illuminate any dust, and have seen pretty much nothing getting away. In fact if I sand without the vac running and then switch the vac on, I can see the airborne sawdust making a bee-line towards the sander.

[cgallery]

I could've written what JR wrote. As shown in Photos 7 and 8 of this thread, my DC system is reduced down to a 2" blast gate at a point near my assembly table. I connect a shop vac hose to this for dust collection for my hand-held power tools, and sometimes for vacuuming the floor, too. As I say in my last reply, the big DC does as good a job of vacuuming as the shop vac does itself.

(But I'll confess that I don't do that much, as the hose I have is too short to reach all points in the shop. Like JR, I do most of my general clean-up by rolling the vac around the shop.)

That's a nice setup. If I only had the room...

[JR]

Interesting. What size dust port is on that sander?

Mine's 1", too. I'm so happy, I went out and got a 1-1/4" hose for it last night, thinking it will be more maneuverable. I'll let ya know!

JR

[docrowan]

Very timely thread for me as I'm still setting up my shop and have been using the 12 gallon Ridgid shop vac for dust collection. It's particularly timely since I cut a bunch of dadoes over the weekend and noticed a good bit of dust on surfaces in my shop. Also I've been fighting sinus trouble ever since.

However I'll have to figure out how to make the shop vac work. It's not just a question of expense, but also space and flexibility. I have a very tight shop budget and a small shop space. All of my benchtop tools will be on wheels or in a tool dock for maximum mobility. Running DC piping throughout my shop is out of the question.

I'll probably eventually add a cyclone prefilter and shop built ambient air cleaner as mentioned in this thread. Also, I agree that moving my shop vac outside the building will lead to an unacceptable long suction hose run, plus I have no place to really mount it where it will be protected. But I liked the idea of exhausting the shop vac to the outside instead of buying a HEPA filter which may clog more quickly. I think I'm going to buy another hose, attach it to the exhaust, and run it outside. I believe I should maintain the same suction, or close to it, and still exhaust outside. Anyway, it'll only cost me about twenty bucks to try it.

[LarryG]

Also, I agree that moving my shop vac outside the building will lead to an unacceptable long suction hose run

If you use the 2" clear plastic tubing that several vendors sell for the extension, and don't add any more corrugated hose, it will likely work just fine. In my former, smaller shop, I had a system like this installed along one wall that was impossible to serve with my big DC. I had about 15 feet of clear tubing between the vac and the last blast gate, and when I connected the vac's hose to this gate, it worked every bit as well as if it was connected directly to the vac. There were also a couple branch runs with at least two 90deg elbows each, and they worked fine, too.

As I was installing the system I had the same concerns as you, and was actually surprised (pleasantly) at how well it worked.

[cgallery]

If you use the 2" clear plastic tubing that several vendors sell for the extension, and don't add any more corrugated hose, it will likely work just fine.

...

As I was installing the system I had the same concerns as you, and was actually surprised (pleasantly) at how well it worked.

I'll go one further and add that even fairly long (15') runs of corrugated don't seem to reduce CFM much. My test in going from 1' to 15' saw a reduction of approx. 5-CFM.

The clear, smooth plastic should be dynamite.

[LarryG]

The clear, smooth plastic should be dynamite.

My system had a tee and a blast gate serving the CMS about halfway down the main trunk's run. With this gate open, some sawdust would gradually collect in the main trunk just upstream (i.e., away from the vac) of the tee. When I opened the gate at the far end of the run, that little pile of dust would disappear like the Millennium Falcon jumping to light speed.

The basic problem remained, though. A shop vac does a great job of whisking away debris that can be directly funneled into it, using the end of a hose, or the dust port built right into tools like sanders or plate joiners or (some) routers. But it just can't move a sufficiently large mass of air to gather up whatever is floating around in the general vicinity.

[Iansaws]

[QUOTE=LarryG;317131]If you use the 2" clear plastic tubing that several vendors sell for the extension, and don't add any more corrugated hose, it will likely work just fine.QUOTE]


This is exactly what I am planning, with the addition of moving the vac outside. I will have to experiment with what type of filter to use, but I doubt I will go to the expense of a hepi-filter. There should be very little corrugated hose (whatever is needed to go from the tool to the blast gate and from the vac to the "clear tubing" setup) and moving it outside will only add a foot or so to the run as the vac will be just on the other side of the wall. The impeller collector sounds like a project in the near future as well. I also plan to construct an "air cleaner" and add it to the mix using a "squirrel cage" blower I salvaged from a central furnace I replaced years ago (knew it would come in handy one day). This will be mounted on the outside of the building as well using disposable filters on the intake. Placing both of these on the exterior will not only save space, but improve the air quality and decrease the noise level inside the shop as well.

I forgot to mention that the shop vac is plugged into a device I found at HD on Black Friday for $10 that allows you to wirelessly control outdoor lighting, but works with anything that can run on 110v. So I can now control the shop-vac from anywhere in the shop I happen to be working...as long as I have the remote handy.

Also, I want to thank everyone for all your insight and suggestions. Dust collectors have been a mystery to me until now. I almost bought the 1.5 HP Craftsman DC on sale until recently for around $150, but the HP rating of 1.5 seemed low compared to my 5HP shop vac. I now wish I had pulled the trigger on that deal.

[JR]

This is exactly what I am planning ...

That's a great plan! You'll move the ball far down field with it. The remote control is an excellent touch. The best DC in the world is no good if it isn't used. Without some sort of automation I frequently found that the power switch was just too inconvenient to reach "for just these few cuts".

JR

[cgallery]

The basic problem remained, though. A shop vac does a great job of whisking away debris that can be directly funneled into it, using the end of a hose, or the dust port built right into tools like sanders or plate joiners or (some) routers. But it just can't move a sufficiently large mass of air to gather up whatever is floating around in the general vicinity.

If you had the room, you could have a nice DC ducted to all your tools. Within the ducting, you could strategrically place 2.5" blast gates. One of these ports could have a vac attached, with a separate remote. When you want high CFM, you turn on the DC. When you want high pressure, you turn on the vac. I realize the vac wouldn't be able to suspend debris within a 6" main. But the next time you use the DC, it should clear whatever the vac left in the duct no problem.

I just really regret not buying a giant ranch-style home w/ an enormous basement (like my father did).

[Garasaki]

[QUOTE=Iansaws;317153]

I forgot to mention that the shop vac is plugged into a device I found at HD on Black Friday for $10 that allows you to wirelessly control outdoor lighting, but works with anything that can run on 110v.

Before you get too jazzed on that, make DARN SURE that device is rated to support a 15 amp load.

Seems to me anything designed to provide power for a string of xmas lights isn't going to be heavy duty enough for the full 15 amps a shop vac can pull (I know cause I have tripped my breakers many a times trying to run the shop vac and something else on the same circuit).

Whats the word on this 150 dollar DC from sears??

[Iansaws]

[QUOTE=Garasaki;317172]

Before you get too jazzed on that, make DARN SURE that device is rated to support a 15 amp load....
Whats the word on this 150 dollar DC from sears??

Thanks for the excellent advice. I checked and fortunately it is rated for 15 amp use.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid the Craftsman DC deal is gone, but here is the original posting from Cheeky. Be sure to let me know if it comes back.

http://www.bt3central.com/showthread...dust+collector