Outlet for 21829

[djkert]

Just bought a new 21829 and would would like to run a dedicated circuit to it. Should I go 15A or 20A? Also, is there any good guides on the internet to install an outlet in a garage with cinder block walls?

thanks,
Dennis

[lrr]

Definitely go 20A, the circuit breakers are close in price, so go for the extra. You'll need 12 ga. Romex instead of 14 ga. Again, very little difference in cost.

Not sure about block walls, but you could run conduit along wall, and use metal boxes and plate. Without knowing your breaker box location, it is hard to speculate on where cabling or conduit can run.

Also, make sure you put in a GFCI outlet for anything in a garage or outdoor location. You just need the first outlet to be GFCI, all "downstream" outlets will trip if there is a ground fault. Depending on your breaker box manufacturer, you may be able to get a GFCI breaker, and then use conventional outlets in the box(es).

Another option is to run two circuits, so you have a dedicated cioutlet for the saw, and another for shop vac or something else. Taht way, you will not overlaod the single circuit. You can rub both circuits to quad boxes, and just use different color outlets to highlight the different circuits.

I'd also get a book on wiring, and maybe use an electrician if you really are not comfortable with all the issues to consider.

[crokett]

With block walls, conduit and metal boxes is required, at least for the wiring running along the wall. Don't forget to ground the boxes. You can either run the cable along the ceiling josts then run it through conduit where it drops down to your boxes, or you can run one feed down to your box then run it through conduit straight along the wall.

[djkert]

OK. thanks for the replies. So here is my plan.

I plan to use 2 20 AMP circuit breakers which I will install at the breaker panel. 1 for my table saw and the other for whatever tools I am using at the time (or space heater.) I want the box just 3 feet from my breaker box, so I will run 2 12 amp wires encased in 3/4 " conduit. My ceiling is finished so I plan on running the wires up from my panel and into the conduit about 3" below the ceiling. They will run horizontally for about 3 feet where I will use a 90 degree conduit fitting (I hope these exist.) Then run them vertically to a metal box that will hold 2 20 AMP receptacles and attached to the cinder block with Masonry screws.

Am I missing anything? Does all that sound right? How does the conduit attach to cinder block?

BTW, I will pick up a book to sort out the details.

thanks,
Dennis

[crokett]

The conduit attaches to the wall with standoffs. You can get those at the home center in the same aisle as the conduit.

lrr's suggestion is a good one - different colored outlets for the different circuits and label them inside the box as well. Why are you running the wiring up and then back down? Do you have knockouts on the sides of the service panel? You should be able to just come straight off the side of the panel. I would seriously consider adding more than just the 1 box of outlets while you are doing this.

[djkert]

Good suggestion on running them sideways. I will look for knockouts on the side of the panel.

Not sure I understood why I need to color them. If I run two wires to the box and hire two receptacles, won't it be obvious left is one breaker and the right is the other?

I am planning on running 2 wires off of two breakers to the same spot. You think I would need more than this?

[siliconbauhaus]

have you considered pvc conduit instead of metal ? nicer to work with imho

[crokett]

Not sure I understood why I need to color them. If I run two wires to the box and hire two receptacles, won't it be obvious left is one breaker and the right is the other?

To you right now, yes. To you in 5 years, maybe. To someone else, no. Besides which, the outlets are the same price anyway.

[sbs]

Just in case you don't know, if you run the whole thing in conduit like that you will need to use individual wires not NM-B.

You can use a common neutral for these two circuits to save some wire.

It sounds like you are planning to install a split receptacle with one half on each circuit? That seems silly - a single outlet per 20A circuit is a huge waste, plus you'll then need two GFCI breakers which is costly. If you really only need one outlet per circuit, at least run each circuit to its own box so you can use GFCI outlets instead.

The place to find out about doing it safely & legally is here:
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/wiring/?5005

[sbs]

have you considered pvc conduit instead of metal ? nicer to work with imho

Around here the big box stores don't carry Sch 80. You have to go to an electrical supplier, so it ends up considerably more expensive. Sch. 40, which the big box stores have plenty of, is not allowed for a situation like this (physical protection.)

I find steel conduit a lot easier and quicker to install anyway...

[djkert]

Just in case you don't know, if you run the whole thing in conduit like that you will need to use individual wires not NM-B.

Why is this?

It sounds like you are planning to install a split receptacle with one half on each circuit? That seems silly - a single outlet per 20A circuit is a huge waste, plus you'll then need two GFCI breakers which is costly. If you really only need one outlet per circuit, at least run each circuit to its own box so you can use GFCI outlets instead.

I did this yesterday. I did use GFCI outlets and normal circuit breakers. However, I did run 2 NM wires through the conduit. The book I had said individual wires is common, but NM wire is acceptable, is that not the case?

-Dennis

[djkert]

Around here the big box stores don't carry Sch 80. You have to go to an electrical supplier, so it ends up considerably more expensive. Sch. 40, which the big box stores have plenty of, is not allowed for a situation like this (physical protection.)

I find steel conduit a lot easier and quicker to install anyway...

I ended up using EMT. It was pretty easy to work with.

[Tom Slick]

The idea with individual wires in conduit is that they will run cooler under load. NM-B can become to hot due to the lack of space in the conduit.
individual wires in conduit is much easier to work with anyway.

[djkert]

The idea with individual wires in conduit is that they will run cooler under load. NM-B can become to hot due to the lack of space in the conduit.
individual wires in conduit is much easier to work with anyway.

I used 3/4" conduit for 2 12/2 NM wires. Do you think this is something I will need to go back and redo?

[sbs]

I used 3/4" conduit for 2 12/2 NM wires. Do you think this is something I will need to go back and redo?

I believe your installation as I understand it is illegal in many jurisdictions, but I am not an electrician, so my opinion isn't worth much.

You need to talk to an electrician and/or your AHJ. The best source of free advice from electricians is the forum I pointed you to earlier.