Attaching a French Cleat to Shop Cabs

[bmuir]

I am planning a shop in my garage.
Shop area is about 18 x 11. Car on one side; shop on the other.
I plan on building 3/4 –inch Melamine wall cabinets for storage , thus keeping the floor open. The cabinets will hang from French cleats made from ¾-inch Birch plywood. Cleats to run the length of the shop wall and be used to store jigs and other “stuff.”
Question: What is the best way to attach the cleat to the cabinet back? The plan was to use a ¼-inch back. But, will that hold the cleat and the weight of the cabinet and contents? Do I need to use ¾-inch Melamine for the back? Or something else for the back? Or, maybe add a hardwood 1x3 glued and screwed to the back/inside/top of the cabinet. Any ideas would be welcomed? Thanks, Bill

[RayintheUK]

The cabinets will hang from French cleats made from ¾-inch Birch plywood. Cleats to run the length of the shop wall and be used to store jigs and other “stuff.”
Do I need to use ¾-inch Melamine for the back? Or something else for the back?

You'll need a 3/4" back (could be ply or MDF), inset by 3/4" (width of cleat) and let into a dado all round. Rebate (rabbet) joints, as at "A," where top and bottom meet the sides. French cleat goes immediately under the top, glued to the back and screwed from the inside. Here's a side elevation:



I use a double row of cleats for heavily-loaded cabinets. It's hardly any extra work, but pays dividends in weight distribution (and reassurance!).

Ray.

[cabinetman]

Most all of the French Clete mounts I have made were structurally dependent on the ends and the top of the cabinet. I recessed the clete enough to leave some of the edges of the cabinet proud of the clete, so when setting the cabinet down it can pull all the way to the wall. If the clete on the cabinet was flush with the cabinet it might not seat far enough. As for the backs in the cabinet, 1/4" will work. So, with a 1/4" back and a 3/4" clete, I recessed the rabbet for the back 1 1/8". Sounds like a lot, but for finished cabinetry, you don't see a hang rail (I call a scrail - short for screw-rail). The clete is glued and screwed to the ends and the underside of the top. I usually make both cabinet and wall clete minimum 3" - 4" to get good glueing and screwing surface. Never had a failure. I have made backs in 1/2" material when there was a need for using the back for standards and bracket shelving systems, and on occasion 3/4" for real heavy applications, but they were rare. For most uses, 1/4" will square the back of the cabinet and provide a good glue joint for the clete at the top. On occasion I have made cabinets with two cletes - one at the top, and one near the bottom, allowing for the clearance of the bottom wall clete. These were for extreme duty.

As added input to this subject, basic cabinet construction of rabbeted ends (sides) allows the top and bottom of the cabinet to be reliant on the fastening to the ends (horizontal connection), versus the cabinet hanging from a rabbet joint in which the ends are into a rabbet in the top (verticle connection).

I remember making a long display cabinet (approximately 4' high and 8' wide) for brochures in a sales trailer. The the wall was so wavey that regular construction with an inside hangrail would not have pulled the cabinet tight to the wall. Used a french clete and the cabinet straightened out the wall of the trailer as it pulled down tight.

One big advantage to the french clete is that if you are working alone or the cabinets are bulky or hard to handle, it's much easier to set up a clete system for installation than trying to align and level a big cabinet. Once you find the studs, and level the clete, installation is a snap. Plus un-installing is easier if need be.



"I'M NEVER WRONG - BUT I'M NOT ALWAYS RIGHT"

[Ken Massingale]

You'll need a 3/4" back (could be ply or MDF), inset by 3/4" (width of cleat) and let into a dado all round. Rebate (rabbet) joints, as at "A," where top and bottom meet the sides. French cleat goes immediately under the top, glued to the back and screwed from the inside. Here's a side elevation:

[ATTACH]2737[/ATTACH]

I use a double row of cleats for heavily-loaded cabinets. It's hardly any extra work, but pays dividends in weight distribution (and reassurance!).

Ray.

Ray,
A question please.
I'd like your opinion of Danny Proulx's methods of building particle board (Melamine) kitchen cabinets. In his 'Build your Own Kitchen Cabinets' books, he advocates using simple but joints to join the sides/top/bottom, using PB screws. He claims the joints are as strong as dados/rabbets if long PB screws are used.
Your thoughts?
The Melamine cabinets I have built so far I did dado and rabbet all around, but I have several more to do and 'if' butt joints are strong enough, skipping those steps would save a lot of time. I would still rabbet the back into the other components for the french cleat, tho.
Thanks Ray,
Ken

[RayintheUK]

In his 'Build your Own Kitchen Cabinets' books, he advocates using simple but joints to join the sides/top/bottom, using PB screws. He claims the joints are as strong as dados/rabbets if long PB screws are used.
Your thoughts?

In all the years I've been building cabinets, I've always erred on the side of safety - i.e., over-engineered them. This is based on the fact that sturdy-looking cupboards get very well loaded and on the basis that - if you trip or fall - you'll grab onto whatever's near to you. In a situation where you grab the (heavily-loaded) cabinet, the last thing you need is it coming down on top of you. This would tend to wipe the smile off, to say the least!

I have never, nor would I ever, use screwed butt joints - but that's just me. I like a glue line right through any joint, although with melamine, that's another problem altogether if butting.

I don't worry about my cabinets, because I know I can trust them. I always go with what I know works, hence I'll not be trying butt joints with screws any time soon, because I inherently wouldn't trust them. JMTQW!

Ray.

[wardprobst]

In all the years I've been building cabinets, I've always erred on the side of safety - i.e., over-engineered them. This is based on the fact that sturdy-looking cupboards get very well loaded and on the basis that - if you trip or fall - you'll grab onto whatever's near to you. In a situation where you grab the (heavily-loaded) cabinet, the last thing you need is it coming down on top of you. This would tend to wipe the smile off, to say the least!

I have never, nor would I ever, use screwed butt joints - but that's just me. I like a glue line right through any joint, although with melamine, that's another problem altogether if butting.

I don't worry about my cabinets, because I know I can trust them. I always go with what I know works, hence I'll not be trying butt joints with screws any time soon, because I inherently wouldn't trust them. JMTQW!

Ray.

JMTQW???? (I checked the FAQ)
DP

[cgallery]

JMTQW???? (I checked the FAQ)
DP

I think is is the same as "Just My Ten Cents Worth," but in a foreign (to U.S.) currency.

[mschrank]

JMTQW???? (I checked the FAQ)
DP

"Just My Two Quid Worth"...? Though I believe a quid is much more than a cent....so maybe Ray is giving really good advice

[RayintheUK]

Sorry, Dale - "Just My Two Quids' Worth" - my adaptation of "Two Pence Worth" as my posts do tend to be rather long!

Ray.

[Anna]

What's the best material to use for the cleats? Birch plywood will work? Or should we use hardwood instead?

[Ken Massingale]

Thanks Ray, I appreciate it.
ken

[RayintheUK]

What's the best material to use for the cleats? Birch plywood will work? Or should we use hardwood instead?

I've used everything from MDF to hardwood. As long as the cleats are well fixed to both the cabinet and the wall and lock together well when the cabinet is hung, ply is certainly good enough.

Ray.

[cabinetman]

Anna

Birch plywood will work fine as will most any plywoods, hardwoods or solid woods. Some recommendations to make are to use 3/4", for its mass and longer bevel on the 45 deg. I usually make them so that the flat section is at least 3" to 4", and to ease the 45 deg sharp edge so it won't break off or splinter when attaching. Make sure the installation screws for the wall member are well countersunk so that there are no protrusions.



"I'M NEVER WRONG - BUT I'M NOT ALWAYS RIGHT"

[LarryG]

An installation tip.

Maybe it's just me, but I used to always have to stop and think deeply for a few seconds when installing French cleats, to make sure I was getting them on right. Then I figured out a simple, can't miss check: whether it's on the wall or on the cabinet, if you can see the bevel ... it's wrong.

[wardprobst]

Sorry, Dale - "Just My Two Quids' Worth" - my adaptation of "Two Pence Worth" as my posts do tend to be rather long!

Ray.

Thanks Ray,

Your posts are always interesting and well worth the price!
DP