remodeling garage/shop pictures (56k beware!)

[gtokarski]

I took some pictures of my garage/shop and I though I would post them here:
this is how it began over a year ago:
started with bare studs. the construction in Vegas is AWEFUL. stucco over wire mesh and tarpaper. Thats it, no plywood, nothing!


The pictures are not off, some of those studs DO curve like that. none of them are straight or level.



the ceiling is bare and uninsulated too. I haven't figured out how to insulate it yet. I could just cover it up but that would waste a lot of valuable storage space. the rafters are only 2x4 so I cant just staple thick fiberglass batting to them (no airflow between roof and batting).




there was drywall in some random spots in the garage. not sure what they were trying to do.



The previous owner built a box around the dryer tube vent. which mice promptly setup home inside. tore it all out and replaced the insulation. insulated the bare walls too.



Insulated all the walls and garage door too.




new wiring...



...made the main panel crowded! still working on that (see other post)



but I got all the drywall back up. and some shoplights



Got it organized a bit, but I need workbenches and cabinets BADLEY!



And I gave myself an AWESOME Xmas gift thanks to the guidance of this site:


[8D][8D][8D][8D][8D][8D]
you can visit the whole gallery here:
http://web.mac.com/gtokarski/iWeb/Site/Shop.html

Lessons Learned:
Drywall goes horizontally, not vertically.
place all your receptacles at the same height or they look goofy. [B)]
your home was built by the lowest bidder.
remodeling BEFORE you put all your crap in the garage is WAY easier!
Drywall dust settles EVERYWHERE!
the steel shelving at the BORG sucks. Gorilla Rack for life!

To Do:
epoxy floor
primer walls
finish electrical
finish ceiling
and buy lots more toys, i mean tools!

After that I get to start on the fun stuff like building workbenches, storage, kitchen cabinets, custom office desk, etc.
At the rate im going I may start my actual Woodworking when I retire [:I]

[monte]

Coming along nicely. Be sure to post more pictures when you get your benches and cabinets built.

[mater]

You have made good progress. It is looking good. Keep up the good work.

[lrogers]

You're doing a bang-up job. Did you do the insulation on your garage door? If so, what did you use and how was it to install?

[mschrank]

quote:Originally posted by gtokarski

Lessons Learned:
Drywall goes horizontally, not vertically.
place all your receptacles at the same height or they look goofy. [B)]

When I put drywall up in the garage, I put it vertically. I think the reason it generally goes horizontal is to minimize any "waviness" from out-of-line studs. For my garage, I wasn't concerned about that. I was concerned about my non-existent taping/mudding skills, and decided I'd rather minimze butt joints.

Regarding recepticles: I carefully measured and placed all of mine exactly 50" above the floor, feeling clever that I was placing them so they would not be covered by sheet goods strored next to the wall. Forgot to take into account that the garage floor is sloped, so while they are now parallel to the floor line, they are not parallel to anything else

Your work looks good! Keep it up and you'll have a nice shop there eventually (I started mine nearly a year ago, and it's nearly there!)

[ElRay]

quote:Originally posted by gtokarski

the ceiling is bare and uninsulated too. I haven't figured out how to insulate it yet. I could just cover it up but that would waste a lot of valuable storage space. the rafters are only 2x4 so I cant just staple thick fiberglass batting to them (no airflow between roof and batting).

I've seen this done two different ways.

The first was to staple those Styrofoam "baffles" to the underside of the roof, between the trusses, attach 2x2 or 2x4 (depends on how much insulation you need) firing strips to the inside edges of the trusses and then insulate as normal.

The other was to attach 2x4 or 2x6 (depends on how much insulation you need) "firing strips" to the across the inside edges of the trusses (perpendicular to the trusses) and then insulate horizontally instead of vertically.

Ray

[LarryG]

quote:Originally posted by gtokarski

the rafters are only 2x4 so I cant just staple thick fiberglass batting to them (no airflow between roof and batting).

Yes, you CAN do this; and actually in that case you don't WANT airflow between the underside of the roof sheathing and the insulation ... if there was an airspace, you'd have to vent above the insulation. As long as the "attic" space is not sealed off from the shop space below, there's no problem at all putting insulation tight to the roof deck as long as you ensure that it is just that: TIGHT to the roof deck.

Installing batts tight against the underside of the roof deck will allow you to use the web space in the trusses for storage, and will also allow some necessary air movement between the shop space below and the attic, all the way up to the insulation. The one thing you would NOT want to do, with insulation tight against the deck, is install a hard, tightly-sealed ceiling at the bottom chord of the trusses. That would restrict air movement into the attic space and would cause problems.

A related caution: you won't want to load up the bottom chords of those trusses too much, as they almost surely are not designed to carry anything more than their own weight plus a ceiling. Christmas decorations, coolers, camping gear and the like ... probably okay. Stacks of rough-sawn lumber ... no.

[Wood_workur]

Looks good. The ceiling would make a good storage rack for wood.

[gtokarski]

quote:Originally posted by lrogers

You're doing a bang-up job. Did you do the insulation on your garage door? If so, what did you use and how was it to install?

the door is metal with about 1.5-2" of space so I bought some rigid foam board at the BORG and cut it into the proper sizes. Its easy to cut with just a utility knife, score one side and break it, just like drywall. it does make a mess though. the blue part is just a plastic covering that seems to randomly come off. its not fire proof so probably not code. styrofoam is nasty when it burns. still gota figure that one out.

quote:
When I put drywall up in the garage, I put it vertically.

I am going to add some 1/8" or 1/4" hardboard 4x8 sheets to the bottom half of all the walls to keep the drywall from getting damaged if i bang into it. I think i will do peg board on the upper half. that way no one will see the tape/mud job anyway []

quote:

I've seen this done two different ways.

The first was to staple those Styrofoam "baffles" to the underside of the roof, between the trusses, attach 2x2 or 2x4 (depends on how much insulation you need) firing strips to the inside edges of the trusses and then insulate as normal.

The other was to attach 2x4 or 2x6 (depends on how much insulation you need) "firing strips" to the across the inside edges of the trusses (perpendicular to the trusses) and then insulate horizontally instead of vertically.

Brilliant! although there are NO vents in the roof or soffit vents in the gables. I would have to drill them to create airflow and add some sort of vent in the center near the top.
hmm....

quote:

Yes, you CAN do this; and actually in that case you don't WANT airflow between the underside of the roof sheathing and the insulation ... if there was an airspace, you'd have to vent above the insulation. As long as the "attic" space is not sealed off from the shop space below, there's no problem at all putting insulation tight to the roof deck as long as you ensure that it is just that: TIGHT to the roof deck.

hmm, so should I leave the batting just hanging up there? or should i cover it with something. I guess I was worried about fiberglass fibers drifting down and settling around the shop and in my lungs.

I doubt moisture and condensation will be much of a problem. This is Vegas. All the literature I have read seems to be interested in air circulation to prevent condensation in wet climates. I've been looking for EEBA BUILDER'S GUIDE
Hot-Dry / Mixed-Dry Climate By: Joe Lstiburek
http://www.eeba.org/mall/builder_guides.asp
but i can't seem to find it on amazon. I'm gona try the library and see if they have it here.
I look at a synthetic sweater the wrong way and I create enough static to kill a cat.
if anyone has any suggestions as far as good ways to modify houses for better energy efficiency in hot/dry climates let me know. The more passive cooling/solar heating/'green' energy conservation stuff I can do the better. the heating bill is pretty big during the winter and the AC runs all the time in the summer. We already did double paned windows and sealed most of the air gaps in the electrical outlets, doors and vents. I need to get into the attic and probably blow some more insulation in there, not to mention insulate the ac piping that runs up there. Blah, more work. [xx(]

quote:

Installing batts tight against the underside of the roof deck will allow you to use the web space in the trusses for storage, and will also allow some necessary air movement between the shop space below and the attic, all the way up to the insulation. The one thing you would NOT want to do, with insulation tight against the deck, is install a hard, tightly-sealed ceiling at the bottom chord of the trusses. That would restrict air movement into the attic space and would cause problems.

Yeah, i DONT wana do that. primarily because i would loose that storage space. but also because of the airflow issue. i was considering doing knee walls and a lowered ceiling but thats a HUGE pain to put up drywall that high. not to mention cutting it to avoid the trusses etc.

quote:

A related caution: you won't want to load up the bottom chords of those trusses too much, as they almost surely are not designed to carry anything more than their own weight plus a ceiling. Christmas decorations, coolers, camping gear and the like ... probably okay. Stacks of rough-sawn lumber ... no.

Yeah, like i said: construction here is cheap cheap cheap. the trusses are built with those perforated metal plates that hold them together. even the lengthwise pieces that span the whole garage. The heaviest thing I have put up there is a roll of carpet and so far it hasnt brought down the house (knock on wood).
I was considering re-enforcing them and putting in a hoist to pull engines and such but haven't planned that far ahead yet. it is mostly for small stock or 2x4s and whatever light junk i can cram up there.

[JimD]

You are correct that airflow is largely for humidity control. You have to worry about either the inside or the outside being higher in humidity and it trying to move through the walls. In your case, I would assume the outside will almost always be lower than the inside. That suggests you want a vapor barrier behind the drywall like you do in heavy heating climates. I would check to see what good builders in your area do. They should only mis-locate the vapor barrier once.

Another advantage to ventillation between your roof sheathing and the insulation is the fact that your heat gain during your cooling season will come through the roof. If you allow air to circulate, you will reduce the heat load that the insulation has to work against. Even if you do not need the air for humidity (and you may), it would be good to allow it to keep your roof cooled off some and to reduce inside temperature.

You also do not have to use drywall for the ceiling. I used waferboard. It can be painted but I found a skim coat of drywall compound first helped. It's sturdier but uglier than drywall. It is also a decent vapor barrier.

Jim

[JimD]

You are correct that airflow is largely for humidity control. You have to worry about either the inside or the outside being higher in humidity and it trying to move through the walls. In your case, I would assume the outside will almost always be lower than the inside. That suggests you want a vapor barrier behind the drywall like you do in heavy heating climates. I would check to see what good builders in your area do. They should only mis-locate the vapor barrier once.

Another advantage to ventillation between your roof sheathing and the insulation is the fact that your heat gain during your cooling season will come through the roof. If you allow air to circulate, you will reduce the heat load that the insulation has to work against. Even if you do not need the air for humidity (and you may), it would be good to allow it to keep your roof cooled off some and to reduce inside temperature.

You also do not have to use drywall for the ceiling. I used waferboard. It can be painted but I found a skim coat of drywall compound first helped. It's sturdier but uglier than drywall. It is also a decent vapor barrier.

Jim