Electrical dilema

[bigfoot15]

I recently built (actually not done yet...BRRRRR) a double car garage (20Dx22W) and have purchased all the power tools i need (that's what i told the wife) to go full bore into this hobby.
I was looking at the inside of my garage, and decided to ask for some opinions here instead of jumping in with both feet regarding the finishing of the interior.

THREE ITEMS I'm looking for opinions on.

Wallboard: gypsum, plywood, cheap panelling or other suggestions

Electrical: install all the wiring inside the walls per the norm, or insulate and board up the walls and use conduit to run electrics to all the plugs, etc on the walls (this idea appeals for the flexibility). Ceiling lighting will still be in the open space above.

which brings me to my little insulating/storage problem.
I have an attic space built into the trusses (6ft W x 4ft H), making lots of storage up there, but i want to have open trusses for ceiling high storage hanging options. HOW do I insulate the ceiling/attic and still have 2x6 to hang stuff from?

Just looking for ideas here.

[JR]

I can't help with the insulation question. I mean would you really want advice from a Californian on that topic?

For the walls, though, I think the best advice is some sort of solid material - either plywood or solid wood. That way mounting cabinets or clamp racks or whatever can be done without having to find studs. Just find the spot you like and do the deed. Bead board or tounge and groove would look nice. Don't forget to give it a good coat of white paint befor moving in. It will help with the lighting.

I think you're on the right track for running the electric conduit on the surface of the walls.

Enjoy that space. I think that size is just about perfect for a hobbyist.

JR

[Bulkley]

For the wallboard, check your local fire code. Gypsum may be required.

I would run electrical behind the wallboard. You may want to sell the house someday. Make sure you put in a lot of outlets, including one or two 220v lines.

To insulate it, consider a false ceiling above and around the area you want for storage. Then install your vapour wrap and insullation as usual.

How are you going to heat it?

[bigfoot15]

Bulkley,
good point about the building code, though I have seen plywood in other garages around here.
The garage is detached, so it isn't a fire code issue. If it was attached I wood have to have fire wall gypsum board on the house wall.
Regarding a false ceiling, I wasn't thinking about overhead storage when I built and only put an 8ft ceiling in there. (DOH!!)
I am deeply starting to regret that.
Heating is 240V electric unit heater with ~500CFM fan. Up here, electric is about the same as gas now and I didn't have the budget for a gas unit heater, nor the space (or budget) for overhead radiant tubes as other friends have. I only plan to make it toasty when i have a gluing project happening.

[SheriffPopeCo]

I've been doing a little of all you asked. I went the cheapest for
insulation. I stand on a ladder and put pink fiberglass insulation
between rafters in roof. Lots of work for a old fat guy like me.
If you are building the garage insides, then I recommend in the wall
wiring. I put my outlets 42 inches off the floor, and a double outlet
every 5ft. For the table saw I ran 10/3 through the rafters and
let it drop down to a outlet that I put at arms reach length, off the floor. Used 1/2" plywood walls, painted with a white gloss paint,
put 9 4' floursecent fixtures in also. As mentioned dont underestimate
your 220V needs. I only put in 2 and need more, but it be darn near
impossible to run more without taking walls down. Oh on the insulation
if you can afford that expanding foam, that would be the way to go.

[bigfoot15]

thanks sheriff.
i was thinking about insulating the rafters. that would keep my attic storage inside the warm area so i wouldn't have to worry about storing certain items up there. the space is full length and very handy to empty the basement into. got to keep the OL happy.

[LarryG]

quote:Originally posted by bigfoot15

i was thinking about insulating the rafters. that would keep my attic storage inside the warm area so i wouldn't have to worry about storing certain items up there.

You can insulate between the rafters, like Sheriff did, as long as you don't leave any voids between the deck and top of the insulation AND you don't apply a finish material to the bottoms of the rafters.

Make sure the batts fit tightly against the underside of the roof decking; if you leave any gaps between the deck and the tops of the batts, you'll get condensation problems. That's also the reason you can't apply a finish material to the rafter bottoms ... you don't want to create a fully-enclosed space that's cold on one side, warm on the other.

Gypsum board will (probably) only be required if the garage is attached to the house, and/or if it's less than some minimum dimension to a property line or another structure. Even if it is required, another material such as plywood can usually be applied (legally, I mean) over the gypsum board, for durabilility. You'll need to check your local codes and ordinances, however, as there are lots of variations on this particular issue.

[Tom Miller]

Wiring: I would put as much wiring in the wall as you can. Conduit on the wall could restrict you from, for example, hanging a cabinet where you want, etc. If you find later that you need another outlet somewhere, you can always run a short piece of conduit on the wall from an existing outlet. So you still have plenty of flexibility.

Wallboard: The prevailing story is that plywood allows you to hang anything anywhere. Then again, you can always attach a cleat through gypsum into a stud, so you can hang anything anywhere.

Hanging stuff from ceiling: Again, you can attach 2x4 or 2x6 cleats through the ceiling gypsum into the truss to hang stuff from. Pay attention to the load limits on truss members, for hanging stuff, and for storing stuff.

How do you access the attic space? Do you have an attic ladder installed already?

Regards,
Tom

[Bulkley]

The reason I asked about heat (I'm familiar with Edmonton in the winter) is that you can buy a heat "cube" type space heater that plugs into a 220v outlet. These things are fairly cheap (and ugly) but they throw a lot of heat and can be very useful in a shop for fast warm up.

Have you built an exhaust fan into one of your walls. Those of us in cold climates tend to close the doors and windows during the winter months. Then, we darn near asphyxiate ourselves when using Varathane or solvents.

[norwegianwoodworker]

quote:Originally posted by Tom Miller

Wiring: I would put as much wiring in the wall as you can. Conduit on the wall could restrict you from, for example, hanging a cabinet where you want, etc. If you find later that you need another outlet somewhere, you can always run a short piece of conduit on the wall from an existing outlet. So you still have plenty of flexibility.

Wallboard: The prevailing story is that plywood allows you to hang anything anywhere. Then again, you can always attach a cleat through gypsum into a stud, so you can hang anything anywhere.

*****************

Regards,
Tom

I agree with Tom upon the wiring - avoid a conduit on the wall, do the wiring inside the wall - that way the conduit will not be in the way if you later on need to change the design of the workshop.

You might want to keep outlets spaced fairly closely. You probably already have an idea of where you want to put your powertools, and that will guide you in where to put your outlets. Add several extras..

It could be an idea to also have several outlets in the ceiling including a 220 V - that way you can set up a "power-tool-island" in the middle of your garage without having tripping hazards. Rectractable cable rolls would be good for this purpose. And you can later easily add more light when you have the ceiling prewired.

Regarding plywood vs gypsum for wallboard, in my shop I have gypsum. It works fine - I have cupboards hanging on cleats and other things mounted to the studs. Finding the studs are no problem using a stud finder, or since you will be putting in the wallboard yourself, you can mark the stud position on the floor and later erase it when you are done hanging your stuff on the walls. For fire safety, I myself would prefer gypsum.

Good luck to you! And I hope the garage will become the workshop of your dreams!!!

Joern

[norwegianwoodworker]

Oh, let me also add - get a couple of dedicated outlets/circuits for your table saw and other power hungry tools...

Joern.

[dkhoward]

I would consider spray on low expansion foam insulation on the ceiling. Good insulating qualities, not to expensive in most local, quick.

I agree that if the fire codes allow, wood sheathing on the walls is the way to go.

As to the electric. I ran mine inside the walls. I wish I had surface mounted. Expanding or adding on is a real pain now. I don't mind the look of surface mounted electrical when the conduit runs are properly done. Almost artlike in my opinion.

On that subject. Overestimate your electrical needs. I thought I had it over figured when I did my shop. Now I am contemplating adding three more 30 amp 110v circuits and two more 220v circuits.

my 2 cents

[bigfoot15]

quote:Originally posted by Tom Miller

Wiring: I would put as much wiring in the wall as you can. Conduit on the wall could restrict you from, for example, hanging a cabinet where you want, etc. If you find later that you need another outlet somewhere, you can always run a short piece of conduit on the wall from an existing outlet. So you still have plenty of flexibility.

Wallboard: The prevailing story is that plywood allows you to hang anything anywhere. Then again, you can always attach a cleat through gypsum into a stud, so you can hang anything anywhere.

Hanging stuff from ceiling: Again, you can attach 2x4 or 2x6 cleats through the ceiling gypsum into the truss to hang stuff from. Pay attention to the load limits on truss members, for hanging stuff, and for storing stuff.

How do you access the attic space? Do you have an attic ladder installed already?

Regards,
Tom

I haven't put a ladder in yet, still using a step ladder right now.
I left a 2'x4' opening in the "floor" for that purpose.
the ready made drop down ladders are quite pricey and most are rated only for 225# (6'5", 280#) so i'm not in a hurry to drop 3-400 for one of them. Plus I can't find one here for 8 ft ceilings, only higher. Really starting to kick myself for not going 8-1/2 ft, but i was concerned about overall exterior height restrictions.

[Bulkley]

quote:Originally posted by bigfoot15
I haven't put a ladder in yet, still using a step ladder right now.
I left a 2'x4' opening in the "floor" for that purpose.
the ready made drop down ladders are quite pricey and most are rated only for 225# (6'5", 280#) so i'm not in a hurry to drop 3-400 for one of them. Plus I can't find one here for 8 ft ceilings, only higher. Really starting to kick myself for not going 8-1/2 ft, but i was concerned about overall exterior height restrictions.

Can you build one? Our grandfathers used to do this using pulleys and counterweights. I bet you can build one that suits you very well.

[Tom Miller]

quote:Originally posted by bigfoot15

I haven't put a ladder in yet, still using a step ladder right now.
I left a 2'x4' opening in the "floor" for that purpose.
the ready made drop down ladders are quite pricey and most are rated only for 225# (6'5", 280#) so i'm not in a hurry to drop 3-400 for one of them. Plus I can't find one here for 8 ft ceilings, only higher. Really starting to kick myself for not going 8-1/2 ft, but i was concerned about overall exterior height restrictions.

8' ceiling should be no problem. I see the ones that Louisville advertises as 8'9" can go as short as 7' (they spec them for max height, and can usually be shortened over 12").

http://www.louisvilleladder.com/lral226p.html

You should be able to get a 300# or more capacity for a little over US$100.

Regards,
Tom