Question on half walls

[Rand]

I could use some advice.

We are going to be remodeling our kitchen this summer. One new feature will be a raised eating bar that's 15" wide. I am going to build an 8 foot long half wall out of 2x4s and install base cabinets on one side. The bar will mount to the top of the half wall.

One end of the half wall will tie into an existing full wall. The other end will only connect to the floor. Like this:

existing wall
_____________
|
| <-- new half wall
|
|

I'm concerned that the free end of the half wall will not be strong enough and will flex. One obvious solution is to connect a 2 foot long half wall at 90 degrees to the long wall forming an L shape. Like this:

existing wall
_____________
|
| <-- new half wall
|
|___

The lady doesn't like that idea. Are there alternative methods to making the half wall strong enough so that someone can't move it by leaning on it?

The lady also doesn't want to see any brackets supporting the bar top so if you have any advice for how to do that I'd appreciate it.

Thanks in advance.

[jdon]

Given your constraints of form over function, the only ways I can see of beefing up the half wall are: 1) cutting through the floor and subfloor and tying some posts into the floor joists- like a deck railing (probably not practical), or 2) providing substantial bracing of the bar where it attaches to the existing wall: maybe some heavy angle iron bolted beneath the bar along the wall. That would put a lot of lateral torque on the existing wall when anybody leaned against the bar, so it would require reinforcement within the existing wall.

Maybe milady could be persuaded into modifying her expectations.

Caveat: I'm not a structural (or any other) engineer

[chopnhack]

I think that you have overlooked the fact that when the base cabs go in place they in essence act as 2' braces behind the wall. The wall will be plenty stiff enough so long as the base cabs are anchored to the floor and screwed into the half stud wall. HTH

[cabinetman]

A little more information would help. The way I read your post, you are building a half high wall 8' long. One end is fixed to a full wall, and the other end is free.

If this is an eating bar top, higher than the cabinets on the other side, it should be 42" high. The base cabinets on the other side, if they are standard kitchen height should be 36" high. In that case stools should be 30" high.

If the top will be the height of the base cabinets (36"), stools should be 24" high. You didn't state how deep the base cabinets are going to be. If standard depth, approximately 24". If more shallow than that please stipulate.

A quick configuration of that arrangement would be to build the wall from 2x4's, at a height to allow for a ¾" plywood cleat, and for the thickness of whatever the eating top will be. You didn't state the overhangs on the eating top...IOW how much will protrude over the cabinet on the back side (if any). But generally, the stud wall is fixed to the floor, and the full wall. It's faced off with whatever you choose.

The base cabinet is installed to the backside of the stud wall, and to the full wall. On top of the half wall, the ¾" plywood cleat is screwed down to the top of the half wall. Allow some overhang with the cleat. When the actual eating top is installed, it gets fastened from underneath the plywood cleat, at points ahead and behind the half wall. Nothing will show from the front (no supports or corbels). Usually there is an edging of some sort on the face edge of the eating top, which covers the edge of the cleat.

Since the half wall is installed to the floor, and the full wall, and the cabinets are installed to the back side of that wall and the full wall, The whole assembly becomes very secure. You could mount a floor cleat where the back side of the toe kick could fasten to.

With the eating top to be 15", and allowing approximately 12" (+/-) of overhang, sounds like not much overhang is allowed on the back side (over the cabinets).

.

[conwaygolfer]

I think that you have overlooked the fact that when the base cabs go in place they in essence act as 2' braces behind the wall. The wall will be plenty stiff enough so long as the base cabs are anchored to the floor and screwed into the half stud wall. HTH

Last summer I built the same configuration at my daughters house and it is very secure. Don't worry about how secure the wall will be. It will have plenty of support.

Conwaygolfer

[Rand]

Thanks for the help guys.

We are going with standard 24" base cabinets. I hadn't thought of screwing a 2x4 to the floor and fastening the toe kick to it.

[greenacres2]

I think that you have overlooked the fact that when the base cabs go in place they in essence act as 2' braces behind the wall. The wall will be plenty stiff enough so long as the base cabs are anchored to the floor and screwed into the half stud wall. HTH

Moved into my house 20 years ago yesterday, and the kitchen was one of the first things to be gutted. Did something similar, though the half wall came out 24" into what had been a 72" opening, turned south and continued for 9' or so. Base cabs (including the sink base and dishwasher--relocated the plumbing as part of the remodel) haven't moved in 20 years, 4 dogs, 3 sons, and 2 wives.

earl