new to this 'mess'

**chopnhack** · 12-16-2012, 12:15 PM

Lorelei, what the information you have come across is referring to is a spit coat or seal coat of shellac. If you use it straight out of the can it will completely seal the wood and no staining is possible. I have found pine to be very difficult to stain without blotching. Make some test pieces, large ones and sand them to the same grit you will finish your project with. From these pieces, sample your stain as well as varying shellac "cuts". Shellac is usually cut with denatured alcohol to reduce it, making the coating thinner. You can use dollar store measuring spoons to make shellac cutting easier. HTH

**cabinetman** · 12-16-2012, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by lorelei739

trying to prepare some pine shelves for staining for an armoire and don't know where to start - I have sanded the pine - but according to the web I need to 'seal' it - then again according to the web I should use Zinsser Bulleye's shellac and denatured alcohol before staining - but have to have a 4:1 ratio - these shelves aren't that big - how do i know how much shellac vs denatured alcohol or can I use the Zinsser's right out of the can - cups, ounces - i'm no mathematcian (or speller) - help, please for a old lady trying to say some pennies

Pine is a soft wood and will accept stain, but can be blotchy. The idea of "sealing" is to permeate the wood, so the stain gets absorbed evenly. There will be hard areas and soft areas. Light areas and dark areas. The extent that you seal could prevent sufficient stain absorption.

You could use "conditioners" that are designed for controlling blotchiness. If you use shellac, use Zinsser Seal Coat. It's a shellac that is wax free. It can be used on top of a film finish as a barrier coat, or under most any topcoat. The mere fact that it's wax free allows it to be compatible.

I would suggest that you test out some samples with it, starting at a 50% reduction with denatured alcohol, and use it as a wash coat. Let it dry and then try your stain out. From that starting place, you will see if more or less concentration will be necessary.

.

**lorelei739** · 12-16-2012, 12:51 PM

ok - so I bought the 'wrong' stuff

the stuff I bought is Bulls Eye Shellac 'Traditional Finish & Sealer' so this should be returned to HD for the Sealcoat? I have already rubbed the shelves down with denatured alcohol - can I put the stain on now without the shellac/sealer? Sorry for the questions - i do appreciate the help - i'm just beside myself right now - since I tried to take the black paint off a cherry jewelry armoire and nothing worked so I'm pitching that piece of furniture - I want something to go right

without spending more money on strippers/stains - it's like when you go to these big box stores can't get anyone willing to help out and I'm spending and returning and on and on... I do appreciate all your the help and comments

**chopnhack** · 12-16-2012, 05:43 PM

What you have is full shellac, which can be thinned with alcohol and used as a seal coat. If you are not willing to do that then yes return it and buy the other product. It is ready out of the can to be used for what you want to do, which is give the wood a light seal coat to control blotching before staining. You haven't mentioned what you are using to stain or the method of staining - brush, rag, spray? What kind of stain, oil or water base?

**radhak** · 12-16-2012, 09:14 PM

Lorelei, this can be pretty simple.

a. You don't need to return the one you currently got - it would work just as well as the other one (Zinsser Bullseye Sealcoat). Only thing is, after putting this, and then the stain, if you want to put a top coat of a polyurethane for protection, you cannot do so; that topcoat is only good with the Sealcoat (that's what they say).

(My opinion is, an armoire does not need to much protection from the elements and you could fore go the poly. )

b. But if you want to retain the option of using a poly as a topcoat, you could return the current box you got to HD, and instead get the Zinsser Sealcoat

c. The instruction sheet for this is found here. On page 2, 3rd para talks about pre stain conditioner, and that you should thin it with denatured alchohol : by adding 3 parts alcohol to 2 parts SealCoat. The easiest way of doing this is to use a small cup or even a large bottle cap. Start with 3 capfuls of sealcoat added to 2 capfuls of alcohol. Or use a laundry-detergent measuring cup.
Remember - these measures are not exact - a little here or there does not matter

d. But if you know what your stain will be, you could make it simpler still; read the Tinting section on the 1st page : if you buy an aniline dye or stain or universal colorant and mix it in the Sealcoat, it could serve as the sealant, and the stain in one. Just remember, you need to give it about an hour to dry, and lightly sand it before adding another

**lorelei739** · 12-17-2012, 04:23 AM

Thanks for the replies - these are just pine shelves that I have sanded - plan on using a 'Minwax Polyshades' Satin/Polyurethane in 1 step in Mission Oak Satin -leftovers from my sister redoing a different (more expensive) piece of furniture and didn't do 'anything' to prep it -

According to the 'web' - for pine I need to seal it so it isn't splotch-y - so that was my question will this Minwax 'brand' be okay alone or do I have to use the Bulls Eye Shellac/Denatured alcohol before I used it - I was planning on using a rag or foam brush (?). If I use the Shellac combo first - I have to sand again before I put on the Minwax?

Sorry for the novice questions - I appreciate the responses - I'm not a person that does this as a hobby etc. so I am very perplexed.

Thanks in advance for your responses,

**cabinetman** · 12-17-2012, 05:43 AM

Originally posted by lorelei739

According to the 'web' - for pine I need to seal it so it isn't splotch-y - so that was my question will this Minwax 'brand' be okay alone or do I have to use the Bulls Eye Shellac/Denatured alcohol before I used it.

I was planning on using a rag or foam brush (?). If I use the Shellac combo first - I have to sand again before I put on the Minwax?

I would start with a sample piece of wood and sand it to 180x (with the grain). Thin the Seal Coat 50% to start with for your first sample. After it's dry, apply the Polyshades with a smooth lint free rag... like a "T" shirt material, or, use a natural bristle brush. See how the coloring takes. You may need to have the Seal Coat more concentrated or less. I wouldn't use a foam brush, as it can leave bubbles. I would lightly sand the dried Seal Coat with 320x (with the grain) before applying the stain.

.

**chopnhack** · 12-17-2012, 07:12 AM

Originally posted by cabinetman

I would start with a sample piece of wood and sand it to 180x (with the grain). Thin the Seal Coat 50% to start with for your first sample. After it's dry, apply the Polyshades with a smooth lint free rag... like a "T" shirt material, or, use a natural bristle brush. See how the coloring takes. You may need to have the Seal Coat more concentrated or less. I wouldn't use a foam brush, as it can leave bubbles. I would lightly sand the dried Seal Coat with 320x (with the grain) before applying the stain.

.

I would add to cman that the sanding of the dried seal coat with 320x needs to be done gently, I have made the mistake of sanding the seal coat as if I was sanding wood with 120 grit, trying to smooth and level the wood - don't do this, you just need to gently, and I do mean gently scuff sand the wood. You are only trying to knock down what are called nibs, tiny raised spots that you can feel with your hand when you rub it across the work. These are from bits of dust left on the workpiece when the seal coat was applied and of course dust falling into the curing surface.

**radhak** · 12-17-2012, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by lorelei739

... my sister redoing a different (more expensive) piece of furniture and didn't do 'anything' to prep it

According to the 'web' - for pine I need to seal it so it isn't splotch-y - so that was my question will this Minwax 'brand' be okay alone or do I have to use the Bulls Eye Shellac/Denatured alcohol before I used it - I was planning on using a rag or foam brush (?). If I use the Shellac combo first - I have to sand again before I put on the Minwax?

That's the fun with woodworking - the expensive wood takes care of itself but the cheaper wood needs careful handling

!

Pine may get splotchy - sometimes, so these precaution could save you some angst.

But if the shelves are not going to be very visible, or you wouldn't mind a bit of uneven stain on it, you could go straight to your minwax poly. I have done that with some of my quick-and-ready pieces and never looked back - the result is not all that bad to my not-so-discerning eye.

You can use sponge-brush or a rag, whichever suits you.

The steps are these

a. apply thinned shellac

b. wait an hour, and gently rub the wood down with a sanding sponge (grit 220 or higher). As chop said, don't over do it, just a casual rub off

c. apply your minwax poly.

d. after the mandated dry time (as said on the minwax tin), again rub down with the sanding sponge

e. apply another coat of minwax poly.

You should be done by now.

And as I said - step a is only to even out the stain on pine; if you don't care much about it, you could skip it and go straight to step b (yes, starting with some light sanding).

**lorelei739** · 01-15-2013, 04:52 AM

didn't work

followed instructions per replies (thanks to all!) - stain didn't take so I spray painted the shelves and the color came out too dark - I tried stripping that spray paint off with citrus stripper - per their instructions remove stripper with soft rag and mineral spirits - to my dismay - this made the pine all bumpy and rough - I tried resanding but that didn't help - WHAT DO I DO NOW! I just want to get these shelves decent enough to put in my armoire -

new to this 'mess'

new to this 'mess'

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