Attaching long panels to cabinet sides?

[ivwshane]

For my laundry room cabinets I need to attach long sides to the box so that it will enclose the washer and dryer. One side will be butted up against a wall and I guess I could just screw directly into the sides of both pieces since you can't see it but on the other side it will be exposed and I cannot simply put screws into the side. I was think about using pocket hole screws (the blue stars in the attached pic) but will that be enough?

I've included a picture of my inspiration design and an exploded view to help me understand your answers better

[mpc]

A few ideas:
* can the side panels be made from layers: a basic plywood core, with screws going horizontally through the vertical side panels into the edges of the top/bottom panels of the upper cabinets? Then a layer of thin finish material/veneer gets glued on, covering the screw heads.

* The "inspiration piece" shows face frames along the the tall vertical panels. You can run ledger strips vertically on the wall (behind the washer & dryer) to pocket-hole or spline or biscuit-joint the panels to. And one along the floor even - to keep the bottom edge of the vertical panel fixed in position. Add a ledger strip that the upper cabinets can then sit on, with screws going up into those upper cabinets and other screws going horizontally into the vertical side panels.

* Face frames can also hide a double-thick vertical panel wall. One solid piece on the outside of the vertical, two smaller panels on the inside... with a gap between the two panels forming a dado slot for the bottom horizontal panels of the center cabinets and a rabbet at the top for the upper horizontal. Glue/spline/biscuit the larger of the panels to the bottom of the main vertical panels. Lay the bottom horizontal of the cabinets on this, then drive screws through that panel downwards into that larger of 2 panels. Then stand a smaller panel (equal in height to the inside height of your upper cabinets) and glue/attach it to the outer panel. Lay the top of the whole cabinets into the rabbet formed by this smaller panel, drive screws through the top into this panel. You can use 2 smaller panels instead of one that's as tall as the upper cabinet interior heights... if those cabinets have an interior shelf. This makes a dado slot for that shelf. Or pre-drill the insert panel for shelf pins.

How much weight will those tall outer panels have to support? If the upper cabinets are anchored to the walls then the side panels mostly have to support their own weight - i.e. are decorative, not structural. If that's the case, your fastening technique isn't as critical. If the panels will have to carry a lot of weight then more consideration to the mechanical aspects of fastening is required. A single layer panel may not be stiff enough either (though face framing helps here) so doubling-up the panel thickness may be necessary.

Also if you do add crown molding as the inspiration piece shows that can hide plain old screws. At least along the top of the vertical side panels.

edit: okay, my ideas anyway. now for the experts to weigh in!

mpc

[cabinetman]

No need for pocket screws. This installation is really very simple. The cabinet is installed to the wall, and the panel is screwed to the cabinet from the inside of the cabinet. It doesn't need much.

For however much the faceframe sticks out past the panel, and lets assume it's a ¾" panel, and a 1½" face frame, mount ¾" spacers to the panel to fill the gap, and the cabinet screws into the fillers/or the panel. The floor of the cabinet can be made ¾" longer to look finished, from the underside.

The inside back edge of the panel below the cabinet has a cleat that secures it to the wall. The very front bottom edge of the panel can sit in a dab of construction adhesive (if it's a slick floor). That usually isn't needed as a ¾" panel with a face frame is pretty rigid when installed to the wall and the cabinet.

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[ivwshane]

Both the cabinet and panel are 3/4". If I want to have an inset door and self closing hinges that I don't want to be seen when the doors are closed do I not use the spacer so that the hinge can attach to the face frame or are there hinges that do what I want that mount to the cabinet side?

I'm sorry if these are noob questions but this is my first real cabinet and I want to do it right the first time.

Thanks for the help!

[cabinetman]

Both the cabinet and panel are 3/4". If I want to have an inset door and self closing hinges that I don't want to be seen when the doors are closed do I not use the spacer so that the hinge can attach to the face frame or are there hinges that do what I want that mount to the cabinet side?

I'm sorry if these are noob questions but this is my first real cabinet and I want to do it right the first time.

Thanks for the help!

I've made them where the cabinet was integral to the panel. IOW, the cabinet is frameless, and the FF for the panel covers the front edge of the cabinet. Then use a euro full inset hinge that mounts to the cabinet side.

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[JimD]

C'man's suggestions all seem sound to me. I would run the screws through the inside of the cabinet too. Euro hinges are nice for adjustability and available inset, partial overlay, and full overlay. If you ever need to put screws through from the outside, however, I will add that there are plugs. On clear finished wood cabinets the appearance could be an issue. On white cabinets with white caps on the screws I don't think it is bad - at least I would do it in a utility room (not in my kitchen). You could put covers over the screws you install inside the cabinet too.

Jim

[ivwshane]

I've got another question. In the inspiration pic there are four doors that appear to be inset, how would the two middle doors be attached? I don't see any stile between them.

[cabinetman]

I've got another question. In the inspiration pic there are four doors that appear to be inset, how would the two middle doors be attached? I don't see any stile between them.

It's possible that there are two separate cabinets, and made as frameless, and the doors are full overlay.

Or, if one cabinet, made as a frameless, and those two center doors share a divider for partial overlay doors.

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[ivwshane]

Another question for you guys. I plan on using a French cleat to hang the upper cabinets that way I can hide the screws with 1/4" birch ply. These cabinets are big so I also plan on having a board run across the bottom, my question is; what type of s rew do I use to fasten the cleat to the wall? Will a 3" deck screw do or should I be looking at a lag bolt? The cleat will be 1x4" poplar.

[cabinetman]

Another question for you guys. I plan on using a French cleat to hang the upper cabinets that way I can hide the screws with 1/4" birch ply. These cabinets are big so I also plan on having a board run across the bottom, my question is; what type of s rew do I use to fasten the cleat to the wall? Will a 3" deck screw do or should I be looking at a lag bolt? The cleat will be 1x4" poplar.

Three inch deck screws (countersunk) would be sufficient.

I don't think I would use a french cleat on the cabinet with the panel ends. With that one I would mount the ends to the cabinet and then install it as such. The lone cabinet could be installed with a french cleat. There needs to be room above the cabinet to drop the cabinet down to the cleat, and have it seat.

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[ivwshane]

Three inch deck screws (countersunk) would be sufficient.

I don't think I would use a french cleat on the cabinet with the panel ends. With that one I would mount the ends to the cabinet and then install it as such. The lone cabinet could be installed with a french cleat. There needs to be room above the cabinet to drop the cabinet down to the cleat, and have it seat.

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Thanks. The cabinet will only be at 7' so I'll have room to drop it down (unless you have another reason not to go with the French cleat).

[cabinetman]

Thanks. The cabinet will only be at 7' so I'll have room to drop it down (unless you have another reason not to go with the French cleat).

Ultimately, the planning should have had the tops of the end panels and the cabinets to all line up. Hanging the cabinets on a cleat could be off of the line up line.

The way I would have done what you have in the picture is to mount the end panels to the cabinet, and stand it up...level it, and screw it to the wall. Then install the cabinet to the right to line up.

If you install the end panels to the cabinet while on its back on the floor, you could lay the cabinet to the right, and pre-install it to the right end panel with pilot holes. Put screws in and then take them out. When you install the tall unit with the two ends, screw it to the wall almost tight, but leave some wiggle room. Then screw in the cabinet to the right. When you level the cabinet to the right, and the left section is level, tighten up the wall installation screws.

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[ivwshane]

Alright, new question.

If I want to use this hinge:
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?p...2&site=ROCKLER

What's the minimum width that the face frame must protrude from the cabinet side? I can't seem to find any detailed instructions on them.

[cabinetman]

Alright, new question.

If I want to use this hinge:
http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?p...2&site=ROCKLER

What's the minimum width that the face frame must protrude from the cabinet side? I can't seem to find any detailed instructions on them.

I think this might cover it...
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Instead of using this hinge, you can make a build out block and use a hinge for inset for frameless. I think this hinge costs more than a frameless hinge, and because of the length of the arm has a bit of play.


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