Setup for long bevel cuts on a left tilting saw?

[BadeMillsap]

I am building a mission style bed from quarter sawn red oak. The wood has stunning medullary rays and I want to make the legs in what I gather is a traditional way to show the grain on all four sides. The plans I have show making each leg up from four pieces with a 45degree bevel along each long edge and then putting a core in the middle of the matched up sides. I'd draw a picture if I knew how!

So the challenge for me at least is how to properly setup and MEASURE to get the left tilt saw to cut these very long (43") beveled edges ... I know I should not run the work piece between the blade and the fence ... so .. how do I measure the distance from the fence to the tilted blade to get the required 2.25" finished width on these work pieces?

If I ran the work piece between the fence and the blade I could measure from fence to inside blade edge but I gather from reading that really isn't safe.

[chopnhack]

Could you make a sled with a mitered block setup to act as a carrier for positioning the wood against the blade?

[toolguy1000]

I am building a mission style bed from quarter sawn red oak. The wood has stunning medullary rays and I want to make the legs in what I gather is a traditional way to show the grain on all four sides. The plans I have show making each leg up from four pieces with a 45degree bevel along each long edge and then putting a core in the middle of the matched up sides. I'd draw a picture if I knew how!

So the challenge for me at least is how to properly setup and MEASURE to get the left tilt saw to cut these very long (43") beveled edges ... I know I should not run the work piece between the blade and the fence ... so .. how do I measure the distance from the fence to the tilted blade to get the required 2.25" finished width on these work pieces?

If I ran the work piece between the fence and the blade I could measure from fence to inside blade edge but I gather from reading that really isn't safe.

i think you've got it wrong. there is no problem running a workpiece between a beveled left tilt blade and a fence, as long as the fence is to the right of the blade when viewed from the operator's position. i think you are confusing this with trying to avoid having an offcut trapped between a beveled blafe and a fence, but this primarily can happen on right tilt saws, like the bt3000 (where the blade tilts towards the fence when the fence is to the right of the blade), unless a standoff jig is used to provide space between the blade and the fence to prevent the offcut from being pinched by the rotating blade resulting in kickback (n.b.: the same condition can occur on LT saws where the fence has been moved to the left of the blade resulting in a situation where the blade now tilts towards the fence). for a discussion of this topic, you might want to check out a past issue of shopnotes magazine (vol.17, issue 101, sept./oct., 2008, "Making a Bevel Rip Cut"' pp 44-45). it covered how to safely perform the bevel rips you are considering.

and while we're at it, either shopnotes or woodsmith magazine (they are cousins to each other) did an article within the last 4 years about building small boxes where the grain pattern ran around the box in an uninterrupted manner. it involved where and how the workpiece was beveled. i don't see why the same technique couldn't be applied to the legs you are planning (strictly for aesthetics). good luck.

[BadeMillsap]

The shopnotes 101 article shows what I need but not how to set fence

@Toolguy1000 ... thank you for the pointer to the Shopnotes article id does indeed show exactly what I need to do ... and I had understood what it shows ... my question (poorly stated) was how does one do the measurement to set the fence for the "Point Up" cut as far as distance from the blade so that the resulting workpiece is exactly the right width on it's "wide" side?

The article states ...

"Point Up. If you have to bevel
both edges of a workpiece, there's
one thing to keep in mind. On the
second pass, you want the bev-
eled point of the workpiece (the
one against the fence) to be up off
the table, as in the far left drawing
below. Otherwise, the point can
wedge under the rip fence."

The "end view" drawing on the left in the article shows exactly what I want to do but it doesn't mention how you accurately measure for and set the fence for the 2nd (Point Up) cut so that the tilted blade is the exact correct distance from the fence. My confusion lies in the problem of the "width" of the measurement changing as the tilt changes ... the distance from the fence to the blade in this case is effected by the actual thickness of the workpiece and I'm having difficulty figuring out how to take that into account when setting the fence for the "point up" cut. Thoughts?

[toolguy1000]

@Toolguy1000 ... thank you for the pointer to the Shopnotes article id does indeed show exactly what I need to do ... and I had understood what it shows ... my question (poorly stated) was how does one do the measurement to set the fence for the "Point Up" cut as far as distance from the blade so that the resulting workpiece is exactly the right width on it's "wide" side?

The article states ...

"Point Up. If you have to bevel
both edges of a workpiece, there's
one thing to keep in mind. On the
second pass, you want the bev-
eled point of the workpiece (the
one against the fence) to be up off
the table, as in the far left drawing
below. Otherwise, the point can
wedge under the rip fence."

The "end view" drawing on the left in the article shows exactly what I want to do but it doesn't mention how you accurately measure for and set the fence for the 2nd (Point Up) cut so that the tilted blade is the exact correct distance from the fence. My confusion lies in the problem of the "width" of the measurement changing as the tilt changes ... the distance from the fence to the blade in this case is effected by the actual thickness of the workpiece and I'm having difficulty figuring out how to take that into account when setting the fence for the "point up" cut. Thoughts?
[ATTACH]17047[/ATTACH]

IMHE, each 45* bevel adds the thickness of the workpiece to the length of the workpiece. so in the pic above, if the material is 3/4", and the short, table contact dimsension of the workpiece is, for example, 2", the long, pointed, side dimension should be 3 1/2" (3/4" for each bevel). if you use a 45* zero clearance insert, you can measure from where the inside edge of the blade intersects with the ZCI to the fence to get the short side dimension. if the bevel set up is correct, the long, pointed, side should be the correct length. i also do test cuts to zero in on the final measurement. hope this helps.

[pecker]

Here's another way to do it. You rip the pieces to exact width first, then follow this guy's instructions. He's using a right tilt saw, so you'd have to mirror image what he does. It takes a little more setup time, but you have better control of the stock as it gets bevelled.

http://cjohnhebert.com/Bed.htm

[natausch]

Grab your combination square, measure out to 2.25" on the face and mark. Turn the square over to use the 45 degree edge and mark from the face to the bottom. Measure from the mark on the bottom to the right (uncut) edge and set your fence. You'll be able to make all of your cuts using this distance.

Next step will be to ensure positioning during glue up. You'll either want to create a spline along the mitered edges (90 degree, 1/2 the height of the board, measure to 1/2 of the miter) or biscuits, keeping a pillar square during glue up is a little tricky. Some people use their router table, a miter lock joint bit is fairly reasonable and only requires you to prep the board to the final length of each side.

[BadeMillsap]

Thanks!

@Natausch .. THANK YOU I will give it a try on a test piece! and you are correct the plans call for splines down the length of each glued edge ... cutting that spline groove will be a challenge but at last the plans show a picture of how to do it ... I hope ...

Bade

[toolguy1000]

@Natausch .. THANK YOU I will give it a try on a test piece! and you are correct the plans call for splines down the length of each glued edge ... cutting that spline groove will be a challenge but at last the plans show a picture of how to do it ... I hope ...

Bade

here again, check out shopnotes magazine. they have covered how to safely execute splined miters several times as an individual topic and several of their projects have also featured them.

[BadeMillsap]

After careful consideration and much thought I have decided to try the miter lock joint router bit ordered 1 from mlcs today

Thank you for all the helpful replies

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

[toolguy1000]

After careful consideration and much thought I have decided to try the miter lock joint router bit ordered 1 from mlcs today

Thank you for all the helpful replies

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

while i hope this isn't sounding like a broken record, shopnotes has done at least one feature on lock miters using router bits in the last 4 years. the article had several tips to make the joint easy to execute and diagnose, should it not turn out the way you want it.

[mpc]

The lock miter bit will require stock that is quite consistent in thickness. And you'll need a couple of featherboards to hold the workpiece down to the router table and firmly against the fence; otherwise the joint will not fit quite right - any movement leads to a bend/kink in the lock miter so the parts won't fight tightly together. I tried a lock miter bit on a recent project and gave up; the setup was quite touchy and I knew I'd have to remove and re-install the router bit several times during project construction. I found a spline was much easier to deal with. Any place that I goofed... well I just didn't put a spline in that short segment; the spline does not have to be one continuous piece.

Rather than trying to use the table saw or a router to make the spline on my large work pieces (big panels with mitered ends) I used a simple biscuit joiner to cut the slots - I just made lots of overlapping biscuit slots. It was a bit easier to control than using a hand-held router. I had to make sure I overlapped a lot to get a fairly flat bottomed slot. Using the biscuit joiner might be tough on your long but skinny workpieces though.

An idea to consider: cut the workpieces to rough width, slightly fat - but still rectangular in cross section. Then use the table saw to cut spline slots on the sides... before you cut the miters. You'll have a nice, fat face against your fence (rather than a 45 degree point) when cutting the slots and you won't risk tearout/blowout on the sharp corners trying to cut slots in a miter.

mpc