Woodstock Recliner refinish: lessons learned and pointers needed

[fastfoodkills]

Hi,

Question: As the clear finish of the chair was just finished in a shellac (not the de-waxed sealer, but Zinser's amber shellac in the yellow can), could I spray a tint or dye of some sort right on top to get an even coat of Red Mahogany? Followed, of course with a few coats of shellac or lacquer? The goal is to mask over the wood grain and deliver an even color. I'm looking for a recommendation on a product or process that would achieve this and ideally without a complete redo.

Some background:
I just refinished our 10 year old Woodstock recliner chair and though it came out great, in my opinion, LOML can't stand it. Though she saw it in progress and even picked out the stain, Minwax "Provencial", it's not what she expected and wants the woodgrain masked over (it does pop quite a bit). After some more discussion, what she really wants is smooth, even grain masking dark red Mahogany as you'll see in a lot of the newer import furniture these days.

Lesson learned: don't believe what they tell you - make a sample or model first! it will save some pain...

Here's an example of a newer generation of the chair, but similar to the finish I gave it:

http://s7d3.scene7.com/is/image/Etha...470&height=470


Here's a sample of the dark mahogany I'm hoping to attain:

http://www.hillcrossfurniture.co.uk/...1089_image.jpg

Thanks!

Tom

[RAFlorida]

Tom, I'm of no help for your question.

Somebody like CabinetMan maybe the one to give you some good advise about the staining. But you made a great observation though: Always make a sample test for LOYL or even for just yourself. It will keep the headaches at bay!

[natausch]

Lots of potential foibles in this one.

Easy
Easiest method would be to apply a tinted shellac (rub on) directly to the surface, assuming you don't have a different top coat above the shellac it will melt through and bond to the existing coat. Expect to apply 8-9 coats to attain the very dark color and obscure the grain like SWMBO wants.

Disdavantage: Color will be a top coat tone only and Shellac is very delicate, scratches will appear as the color beneath the tones layer. This can be corrected by applying a very durable top coat, rub on poly, etc

Effective
First, In my opinion you should remove the cloth and go at the shellac with a lage pile of rags and denatured alochol. Once completed there are two fairly easy options to apply a tinted dye (TransTint is great and relatively inexpensive) directly to the wood. After that is finished you'll want to warm the color (dyes are very flat) with a tinted shellac. Water for rub on or Alochol for spraying, the Alochol will flash too quickly, hard to not end up with lap lines. Plenty of drying time after the last dye coat because the shellac will want to move the dye if you rub too hard

1. Water based Dye - Mix X parts Dye to Water, apply with a rag
2. Alochol based Dye - Mix X parts Dye to DA, apply with a spraygun, Harbor Freight has a cheap one

Tinted Shellac - Go for the Sanding Sealer Zinnser brand, no wax means less adhesion and movement issues later. This is probably the best method if you want a direct shellac (instead of a varnish or other clear coat hard finish)

Disadvantage: Time, if you go with water based you'll need to run with water then knock down the raised grain

Mostly it depends on how you want the wood to look versus how it feels. The Wood Whisperer has some good information on applying water based dyes to blotchy woods, same principle of topcoating a color applies here.

[fastfoodkills]

natausch - thank you for the detailed and excellent advice. Finishing is definitely an area I both enjoy and need to grow in. It sounds like you've got some great experience in it and I appreciate you passing this along. I've been model building for over 30 years (WWII ships, planes, etc.) and thought I knew a thing or two about finishing and now woodworking has turned it all upside down :-)

That's what makes this a great experience, along with the camaraderie.

Tom

[natausch]

I've always thought that model building ranks up there with Luthing for difficulty of scale.

One place I always go back to when reviewing a finishing schedule is woodweb knowledge base.

http://www.woodweb.com/KnowledgeBase/KBFinishing.html

It sounds like your wife is similar to mine, she almost rejected the dye based stain, shellac and Oil&Urethene finish on my last project, a quick end-table, because it looked too old timey. My response was to go extreme and spend the last 9 months on a Kitchen Cart/Garbage Caddy. Most of the time has been spent on the finish.

Finishing program
Sand 120
Sand 180
Sand 240
Apply 25% dilluted Tung Oil/Mineral Spirits
Wait 24 hours
Apply 50% dilluted Tung Oil/Mineral Spirits
Wait 48 hours
Apply 100% Tung Oil
Wait 72 hours
Repeat for 5 more coats

Middle coat is dewaxed shellac, 2lb, two applications to remove lap lines

Top coat will be paste wax

I'm somewhat amazed she hasn't strangled me considering each component(carcas, drawers, top, drawer fronts) have taken upwards of a month.

[fastfoodkills]

Natausch,


That kitchen caddy will, no doubt, be a masterpiece when it's done. Are you using a pure Tung oil or is it one of the blended products and the shellac - is it the Zinnser de-waxed seal coat, the amber or one of the self mixed products? I'm just curious. I Please post some pix when you're done.

I had a look at a few of the woodweb finishing blogs and they seem to cover a wide range of scenarios. One article really stood out: "Stain Chemistry, Solvent Content, Drying Time, and Adhesion" with one of the contributors encouraging others to learn all they can about the color matching, coatings and the related chemistries. Apparently he used to teach finishing to students and specialized in do-it-yourself stains and processes instead of relying upon store bought products. No that would be an adventure and a lot of fun.

Thanks again for the pointers.

Tom