The right glue for the job?

[smorris]

I'm finally at the point where I'm ready to assemble the rocking chair I've been working on. A modified version of the one in Wood mag about a year ago.

I have 12 mortise and tenon connections, 6 on each side. Considering the open time of Titebond, I don't think it is the right glue for the job. I've used DAP Weldwood before for bent lams and it worked well and has a long open time. That would give me plenty of time to get it all put together without rushing excessively and screwing something up. Any reason that would not be a good choice for this piece? If it matters, the wood is white oak.

[bigstick509]

It might be to simplistic but try this http://www.thistothat.com/

[cabinetman]

DAP Plastic Resin Glue would be good.
.

[phrog]

I'm certainly not an expert and am not offering advice but I wonder if hide glue would be an option?

[just started]

1. Time how long it takes you to assemble it from scratch.

2. Double that time.

3. Get a glue with AT LEAST that open working time.

4. Rock away, but watch out for the cat's tail.

[radhak]

Google at first throws up an image of DAP Weldwood which seems to be a contact cement (not so good). But the other results show it to be a plastic resin (good).

If you pick the plastic resin one, at least one site agrees with your choice of Weldwood (which is a plastic resin) :

http://www.jeffgreefwoodworking.com/...lue/index.html

As I had suspected, it indicates that Contact Cement may not be strong enough.

edit : looks like 'DAP Weldwood' is a brand name, and even sells a yellow glue with that name. Just make sure you get the plastic resin.

[Rich P]

FWW Glue Article

A little over year ago FWW conducted a fairly extensive test of both joints and glue combinations. If you don't have access to their site, the bottom line was that a "Type I" glue (which is strangely enough Titebond III) was the best. They built a bunch of identical (as much as is possible with wood) types of joints of a variety of types of wood (maple, oak and ipe), glued them up with the types of glue and then sent them off to a materials science department for destructive testing. If you want to see the full article, I think they have a trial membership that would give you access.

Bottom line, if your joints are tight, medium or loose the Type I glue was the strongest.

Here is a clip from the Titebond site...

"Type I water resistance
Any glue that passes ANSI Type I water resistance specification. This test is more rigorous than the Type II test. It involves specimens being immersed in boiling water for four hours, then dried in an oven at 150ºF, then boiled again for four hours, and cooled in water just prior to testing. Specimens must meet wood failure requirements to pass this test.

Type II water resistance
Any glue that passes the ANSI Type II water-resistance specification. This is a rigorous test that involves specimens being soaked in water for four hours, then dried in an oven at 120ºF. If no delamination is seen after three cycles, the glue passes."

There is a more detailed description of the tests but I can't find it at the moment.

I'm in the process if rebuilding a 11'+ outdoor table top made from ipe (which I previously built but did not properly allow for wood movement) and TB III is my glue of choice this time around.

[atgcpaul]

No doubt any of the 3 Titebond PVA glues would do the job of holding the
rocking chair together. However, in this situation, if you don't think you can
assemble it in pieces, let it dry, and then do more assembly, you might be
better off with a glue you do know to have a long open time and a proven
track record in your hands--Dap Weldwood Resin Glue.

Paul

[smorris]

The resin glue was what I had in mind, not the contact cement. Thanks for the input, I'd like to do the assembly in one shot.

[SARGE..g-47]

I've got 18 M & T's to pull off early afternoon SM. But... they can be done in separate sets of 6 each. I use Titebond III which has the most open time of all the TB's. I can assure you it will hold on white oak as that QSWO is all I have used in the last 2 1/2 years on 11 carcasses.

I have no clue if all 12 of yours have to be done at once? I would lay the project out as suggested... have your clamps adjacent.. glue brush.. glue.. etc. and do a mock assembly that is timed as already suggested by just started. You can even do a second run to hone your technique in the given situation. The dry fit not only familarizes you with this particular glue-up but it will throw up a red flag if the joints have picked up moisture since they were cut and expanded. Even though you may have dry fitted them (you should have if you didn't) in advance.. a tight fit yesterday may be an impossible fit today if the wood expanded due to humidity.

The Titebond has about a 12-15 minute open time. Again if your assembly time exceeds I would personally go to hot hide glue but the plastic resin would likely be your best choice if you aren't familar with working with hot hide as you seldom see it anymore amongst the masses.

Good luck...

[Mr__Bill]

I wonder if you can extend the open time for tightbond by keeping it in the refrigerator until you are ready to spread it on?



Bill

[pelligrini]

TB-III advertises a min working temp of 47 degrees. http://www.titebond.com/WNTitebondIIITB.asp I don't know if it being cooler will increase the open time.

I do know that humidity and high temperatures will affect it. I use TB-III on about everything. These dry, hot Texas summers I work in create some challenging glue ups. I'll do glue up rehearsals on large assemblies to plan out clamp placement & adjustment.

[SARGE..g-47]

I wonder if you can extend the open time for tightbond by keeping it in the refrigerator until you are ready to spread it on?



Bill

What Pellingri said IMO. The only time I have had TB fail is I used some that was in my shop before I had gas heat in the winter. I cannot truly saw it was the fact that the TB was stored and used well under the recommended temperature but I would never personally take the chance and now keep my glue in my rear shop (1/2 basement) that doesn't get below 60 degrees with the leak-off from central heat and air back there.

[pelligrini]

I keep my glues and finishes inside now. They didn't last very long out in my shed, especially baking at 100+ in the Summers.

In January I was gluing up some trophies I made for our annual benefit dart tournament. It was 10 outside and maybe 50 inside, probably a little over 40. My tightbond III was coming out very clumpy. I don't know if it was the cold or the heat that did it. I know I let the glue get pretty cold, so I put it near one of my little electric space heaters. I forgot about it and it got pretty warm, then I let it cool down too much. I did find that if I shook it up well it would flow evenly, but slowly. I don't think it likes the cold.

[smorris]

I did 3 practice assembly's last night, each took about 10-12 minutes. Then I laid the pieces out and simulated applying glue to each piece then assembling. That took 30 minutes before I had it in the clamps. Dicey for TB so I think I'll stick with the DAP plastic resin. The DAP is less temperature tolerant so I may have to bring it inside tonight since it will be going down into the 50-60 range.

Edit to add: Well, it's in the clamps now so no turning back. Everything went together fine with just a couple soft taps of the rubber mallet and it's all square. Tomorrow I should be ready to add the rockers, we'll see.