Finishes

[JR]

I was browsing the finishes aisle the Borg today and a couple of products caught my eye. Has anyone had exerience with these two finishes?

1. Deft waterborne acrylic. It seems to have a very fast dry time and comes in spray cans as well as bulk.
2. Minwax wipe on poly. It is water based and seems to have a fairly quick dry time of 2-3 hours. It comes in a squirt bottle. The direction gave me pause as it calls for shaking the contents prior to application, a technique that is sometimes specifically cautioned against.

TIA,
JR

[crokett]

I have used the Minwax wipe on but shaking it put bubbles in the finish. Stirring is slower but better.

[cabinetman]

I haven't tried either of those products...yet. But, when I apply a wipe on finish, the finish is applied to a wiping cloth and that will disperse bubbles if any. The instruction to "shake" does seem out of the ordinary.
.

[pelligrini]

I've used the Minwax products. I usually get the quart cans that have a small 1/2" or so pour spout. I've never had any problems with bubbles in when shaking it prior to finishing. I do let it sit a few minutes after shaking it though.

[Mr__Bill]

It comes in a squirt bottle. The direction gave me pause as it calls for shaking the contents prior to application, a technique that is sometimes specifically cautioned against.[/LIST]TIA,
JR

It seems to me that it would be hard to stir in a squirt bottle. I expect that squirting it out on to a rag takes care of the bubbles.

The Deft waterborne acrylic sounds interesting, I'll have to look for it next time.

Bill
there were funny little points of light in the sky last night, wonder what they were, rain again this morning so everything must be all right

[JR]

Expanding on the theme slightly, what are the differences between acrylic and poly? I've never used acrylic and have used a lot of poly. I'd expect them to similar in that they're both plastic-y.

JR

[cabinetman]

Expanding on the theme slightly, what are the differences between acrylic and poly? I've never used acrylic and have used a lot of poly. I'd expect them to similar in that they're both plastic-y.

JR

"Poly" could be an oil base "polyurethane", or a waterbase "polyurethane". The term "poly" seems to be used as a shortcut, which can create that confusion. "Acrylic" usually is attributed to a waterbase product.
.

[JR]

Good point, C'man. The two products mentioned above are both water based. I haven't used a water based poly yet, but had thought it would perform similarly to an oil-based product - hard and fairly thick, even in wipe-on formulation.

I don't know anything about acrylic. I imagined these two product would be similar in feel, durability, looks, etc. Of course, I've been wrong before.

JR

[pelligrini]

I just looked on Mixwax's site and I've only used the oil based wipe on polys. The only water based stuff of theirs I have used was the polycrylic. The latter was mostly all on shop stuff.

[schloff]

I used to use Deft exclusively, due to it's VERY quick drying time and ease of application. It also dries hard and alcohol spills won't affect it.

A friend of mine (RIP, Callum) turned me on to it, as he hated the idea of coating his fine pieces woih plastic.

He used the Deft brush-on laquer, which was strange to apply as it dries so fast that you won't even be able to feather the brush strokes. Simply let it dry, and reapply. The second coat will mesh with the first coat and look pretty good. Laquer will actually chemically bond with each coat rather than build layers as poly does. The third or fourth coat will have a professional luster about it. This process takes about 1/2 - 1 hour, and you're ready to display your creation.

I started getting the spray rather than the brush on, as I'm lazy, and this stuff is so simple to apply.

I have seen the cost of this stuff double in the 10 years that I have been using it. I pay about $8 per spray can. Not sure what the gallon can goes for anymore, but it wasn't cheap a decade ago.

[jabe]

I've used Deft brush-on lacquer for years in the high school shop I taught at. We never brushed it on but sprayed it instead, worked great fast drying, we sprayed 3 coats in 2 hr. intervals. It did not require thinning when spraying. They do not recommend spraying as it can cause a flash fire if there is an ignition source. I would stress this to the students before letting them spray.

Now I use Deft water-based acrylic, found that it needs to be thinned for spraying in my climate. Cost about a third more than the lacquer but due to thinning, you get more. Its fast drying 30 min. but I still wait 2hrs before recoating. I like it cause it does not turn as yellow as it ages and they approve it for spraying.

Both products are very forgiving for a novice or the more experienced to use.

[drumpriest]

Polyurethane and Acrylic differ in the resins they use, and because of that also the solvents used to dissolve those resins. Acrylics are water based and use a mild solvent in comparison to most oil based finishes, so it's safer to use in your home workshop.

For a long time I used oil poly blends but since getting my spray equipment I have been using acrylic "lacquer", which is not a nitro lacquer, but rather a water based acrylic finish that has all of the functional features of a nitro lacquer (burn in, super fast drying, etc...)

The stuff I use is EPL or EmTech 6000, like Jabe, this stuff needs thinned slightly before spraying (the older USL would spray perfectly right outta the can). Recoat is 25-45 mins depending upon the humidity. Burn in means no sanding between required. This formula will burn in after an indefinite amount of time, which is nice, as you can spray on additional coats of finish in years to come as it wears thin. It doesn't appear as blush prone as nitro either. I'm really happy with the stuff other than the fact that my spray system has a lot of plastic, and this stuff adheres to it a little too well for my liking.

I have not used the products of this discussion, but I have used polycrylic, and it's ok at best. I just did some adjustable shelves for our new cabinets, and I did 3 with polycrylic and 2 EPL. The EPL shelves were done in 1 afternoon (5 coats) while the polycrylic took a week for the same finish thickness. The EPL cures in 3 days, they poly shelves still have a tacky friction after a week. I only used the polycrylic because it was too cold outside to spray.

[JR]

Very informative, Keith. Thanks a lot.

I think I'll give the Deft acrylic a try. I've been experiencing the same delays in getting projects out of the shop, so the decreased turn-around time should be a big benefit.

JR