HELP with water-borne polystain!

[gjat]

I've built a pine bookshelf and wanted to try the new waterborne stain & finish in one, so I bought the Cabot Water-Borne PolyStain. Sanded it down and began to apply. What a freakin' mess! It's drying so quickly that I can't get the brush marks out and is pretty blotchy. If a little bit drips or over-brushes and I don't get it off, it stains and won't blend in.

Am I doing something wrong? Has anybody else have any experience with this product? Am I applying to thick? Should I thin it? Am I not using a high enough quality brush? Should I apply a super thin coat first? Should I have used a sealer first? If so, does it have to be a water based sealer? Does water-borne poly-stain just suck? Should I sand it all off and go traditional stain and regualr polyurathane?

[Richard in Smithville]

I just answered in your original post, so in a nut shell,

1) Wet the pine to raise the grain; re sand.

2) Prestain because pine is nasty to work with for a smooth finish anyway.

And something else I just thought of,

3) Work in small sections where ever possible. This gives you time to go back and wipe it down.

[gjat]

I didn't use a pre-stain, I didn't see it on the can. I'm not worried about a bit of grain raise, I just wanted the dark color and durability.

Do I use any type of sealer, or is there a specific one for waterbased?


Can I thin with water to slow down the drying process? If I do small sections, it leaves lap marks and it's a stain and sealer in one.

[Richard in Smithville]

This is the prestain I use. I would still consider raising the grain and re sanding. It makes the finishing easier. It's possible that by brushing the stain on, you are spreading it too thin and that's why it's drying fast. WB stain dries fast as it is. I usually flood the area with stain by brushing it on liberally so I have a bit more working time.

When I said about smaller sections, I meant staining and wiping one shelf ( or the like) at a time. As for thinning the stain, it might work but try it out on some scrap first. You might just find that you need more applications over the same area.

[Richard in Smithville]

Went back and reread your post. Use a water based top coat. A WB top coat will take more layers to build up a decent finish though. Just don't use steel wool to sand the layers down between applications.

[gjat]

Richard,
I'm using the Stain/Poly in one, so I'm brushing it, not wiping.

It seems I definitely should have used a pre-stain and maybe should have raised the grain and sanded first.

I hope I can sand off most of what I've finished. I was hoping the waterborne poly/stain would be easier and faster. It's just a book case for my BIL and he didn't want anything fancy. Maybe I should have just painted it.

[Tom Slick]

spraying works well for waterborne. You could try mixing more water with it to see if it will slow the drying.

[gjat]

spraying works well for waterborne. You could try mixing more water with it to see if it will slow the drying.

I don't have an HVLP.

[Tom Slick]

I spray it with a $25 detail gun from HD, works great.

[rjwaldren]

How did this turn out for you?

I've been finishing a vanity with Cabot's oil based Mahogany and I'm having similar problems. I think it's bad stain. The pigments are separating and it's blotching and drying so fast that "wiping off" the excess is more like buffing out a rusty bumper than wiping. I was able to get it workable by cutting with nearly 50% mineral spirits. That seemed to stop the blotching an helped the red pigment spread evenly . Right now I'm just trying to get the finish even enough to go back over it with minwax.

It's my first experience with Cabot's and though it may be just the can I bought, I doubt I'll buy it again.

[gjat]

I ended up sanding it all off. Researching online, I found that Minwax's water poly/stain, still requires a pre-stain wood conditioner for their water finish/stain. Cabot does not make a pre-stain wood conditioner for their waterborne poly/stain.

Basically, the pine was sucking all the moisture out of the poly/stain and it was 'flashing' dry. I didn't want to try minwax's water based conditioner because it may not work with cabot's product. If I ever try a waterbase again, I wouldn't go with the combination product, just a water based stain followed by a water based finish and I would only try Minwax, so I could use the pre-stain conditioner.

My whole intent was to use a faster system to stain and finish some pine bookcases. I ended up using a couple of coats of 50% polyurathane without a stain. Good enough for a BIL who just asked for a 'knocked together bookshelf'.

[Richard in Smithville]

I'm glad it eventually worked out for you. Personally, I never liked the way a poly/stain blend looked.