How do they sell such junk.

[drillman88]

I spent a couple of hours this afternoon building a new drawer for some friends of ours.Their four year daughter ripped the front of it almost completely off.It was some type of vinyl clad particle board that was shot together with 1/4 crown staples and some type of glue.The board looked like it exploded at the joint.They live in a nice house that is about 5 years old.I would be livid if I paid top dollar for that junk.
It never ceases to amaze me how far our level of quality has dropped.There is no way I could contract a house and put my name on this type of material.

[Tom Slick]

The problem is many clients demand it. They don't know the difference between cheap and good and don't want to pay for good. Quality is still out there if you want to pay for it.

[Uncle Cracker]

"The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of cheap price is forgotten..."

[crokett]

Quality can still be had. I picked up matching vanities for the new master bath over the weekend. The vanities have 3 drawers on each side of the doors for under the sink. Everything is real wood. The drawers are real wood and the joints are actually dovetailed, and fairly well done too.

[drillman88]

I know quality is out there.I guess my rant is at the contractor more than anything else.How can you charge someone 220,000 plus and put in something that is crap.I know he is in it to make money but that is rediculous.The home owners dont know any better but he does.

[Ed62]

It always amazes me as to how these contractors want to put junk in the new homes, and they stay in business.

They don't know the difference between cheap and good and don't want to pay for good.

Bingo! But if they're buying a new home, many people assume that if they're paying a good price, the quality will be there. They find out differently if the product doesn't perform, or falls apart.

Ed

[cabinetman]

Some of the biggie developers in this area are Lennar, GL Homes, and Pulte. They all are similar in what they offer new home buyers. In planned developments finding a home under $300K isn't easy. For that kind of money you would expect some decent workmanship.

I get clients that take a credit on their kitchen to go with a custom built. Where the rub is that the credit the developer gives the client is no way close to what they figured in on the cost of the home. A rule of thumb for cabinetry (kitchen and baths) and millwork, should be close to 10% of the value, but never is. If the home sells for $500K, and the builder figured in lets say $30K for the cabinets, the credit given for a sweat equity may be $10K. Getting the builder to prove what was figured in on the cost if the client wants to provide his own cabinetry is nearly impossible. The builder just will not do that.

The builder dissuades that type of thing because he made deals with a cabinet company, and they are production cabinets that get installed when the builder is ready. The builder will say that a subcontractor can't hold him up.

Moreover, the buying public has limited knowledge concerning quality. All they see is the way the outside looks. What's unfortunate is if the builder was honest enough to give the exact credit that was figured, the client could likely get a nice custom job instead. I ran across an interesting website about poor quality with Pulte homes. See it here. More of this type of exposure will likely become more popular.
.

[MilDoc]

There is one home builder in my area (and lots of places in Tx) that i wouldn't take a home from if it was absolutely free.

You get what you don't investigate first.

[sparkeyjames]

"The bitterness of poor quality lingers long after the sweetness of cheap price is forgotten..."

I want that on the back of my business card. I like that.

[JimD]

Our cabinets do not fall apart but are still what I consider low quality. They were custom built on-site by the trim carpenter out of shelving boards (softwood) and birch plywood. The guy couldn't make doors so the builder bought those but they are shaped MDF. The painters managed to make them look decent but did not use shellac or Kilz on the knots so they didn't look so good for very long. I talked to the builder about it but he wanted a lot of money to do it right. The drawers are of softwood stapled and glued together. The guy was at least smart enough to shoot staples through the sides into the front so they are in shear. I knew what I was getting but didn't want to pay enough to get it done right and I also figured I could change them out later. I have replaced the island but we are still using the others. My other complaint is they do not use space efficiently. If we are here long enough, more will get replaced.

Jim

[drumpriest]

Ours are like Jim's, but instead of plywood, everything is MDF. Some of the MDF is exposed and not sealed, on the sides and bottoms of the "cabinets". These would definitely qualify for "built in" according to our other recent conversation. They were about the best of the cabinets in our development, which was built 30 years ago as a really poor neighborhood, but has grown into a fairly rich one. There are now 300-400k$ developments on all sides of this one, and these homes, which originally went for 30k$ are now going for 200k$. 300k$ is pretty pricey for a Pittsburgh suburb.

My plan for the cabinetry in this house has always been to build my own and replace them, and I've slowly been doing that. Currently working on the hot wall's cabinets. Then I have to replace the island ones, and 1 more bathroom vanity, then I'm done. It's a lot of work, but I think it'll be worth it for our usability, and for resale.

[OpaDC]

For the reasons previously stated, I am planning on building a bathroom vanity soon. Then the next bathroom and maybe if I feel confident, redoing the kitchen cabinet doors. What would ya'll suggest using for the cabinets? I don't intend to use paint on any of it. I am also planning to make them higher then standard. Neither LOML nor I are short, and the less young we get the harder it is to bend over the sink.

[drumpriest]

I use 3/4" hardwood veneered plywood for my carcasses and solid wood for the face frames, the type of wood depends upon the project. I recently did one of our vanities, still waiting to get the plumbing done. It's cherry and walnut burl, check it out here...

http://www.bt3central.com/showthread.php?t=41963

For my kitchen I'm doing hard maple, cheaper wood, works nicely, is tough enough to stand up to use, and is pretty popular now-a-days for resale if we decide to move in the next few years (likely).

I have started spraying finishes, and it makes life a lot nicer, better finish in far less time. Worth the investment if you do a large project, but for a single vanity it probably doesn't make a big difference.

Construction has varied from dado/rabbet to pocket screws and mortise and tenon for casework, and is mortise and tenon for face frames (though many use pocket screws there as well). Door vary too, sometimes I use a door maker's kit, or somethings not. The doors on that vanity in the link were made using mortise and tenon joints and a dado connecting the mortises, no special router bit set used.

[woodinville guy]

I know quality is out there.I guess my rant is at the contractor more than anything else.How can you charge someone 220,000 plus and put in something that is crap.I know he is in it to make money but that is rediculous.The home owners dont know any better but he does.

Oh I would dream to find a house that cheap....

I was shocked when I bought my daughters furniture set from a local furniture store (asian importer) that the drawers were actually all dovetailed and the quality actually looked pretty decent overall. We saw many more expensive pieces of junk at big name places and have been happy with it.

I guess they have good sweat shops with child labor that uses dovetails...Bedroom furniture is from NC and solid oak. Almost killed the movers when they had to move my wifes dresser :-)

[drillman88]

I am kinda rejuvenating an old thread, but I just finished building the the 5th drawer for the cabinets in my friends house. Everyone failed at the rabbit on the pull end of the drawer. The particle board just flies apart. It looks like it exploded at the joint.It is incredible that someone could sell this trash. I know I am venting here, but this type of craftsmanship is really unbelievable. Maybe I expect too much from today's quick money generation, but cabinets falling apart in less than 10 years is unacceptable.