Cutouts

[cabinetman]

Maybe a discussion about cutouts, as in cabinet backs, ends, dividers, and we might as well include cutouts for sinks. This would include electrical, plumbing, etc. Any horror stories out there and how you fixed them, or didn't? Got any personal techniques/tool preferences for measuring and cutting?
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[JimD]

Cabinetman:

My first rule is to not have a cutout unless I absolutely have to. For instance, I put cabinets on either side of my fireplace that have no back. They have strips at the top and bottom to be screwed into the studs but not the traditional thin plywood back. So you see the wall board and the outlets if you open the cabinet doors. I did the same thing for plumbing penetrations in the basement bathroom. I just didn't put a back on the cabinet so I needed no cutouts.

I could not do this for the sink in the kitchenette in the basement but it is ceramic tile counters so the cutout was not so critical. The tile can cover small issues (overhang the opening in the backer if necessary).

If I have to do thing the "normal" way, I like to make a smaller hole first and make sure things are where they are supposed to be. Then I take the cabinet back out and finish making the opening. I measure rather than using any of the various marking techniques but if I can slide a base cabinet in place and reach down over it to mark the pipe locations I will.

Jim

[Tom Slick]

I've used the x-y technique with decent results with euro style cabinets. next time I'm going to leave the rough electrical and use a deep remodel box in the cabinet. it will look cleaner then just having a hole in the back of the cab and easier then exactly measuring and using a box extension.

fastcap is now selling a trim ring for the back of cabinets to give the hole a more finished look.
http://fastcap.com/products.aspx?id=3984

my bathroom vanity (installed by PO) has the drain pipe from the wall entering the cab right behind a drawer. their fix was a corrugated flex pipe. that type of pipe likes to clog. I now have a modern art masterpiece under there to fix it, lots of elbows.

[jabe]

I've used the X & Y measurements forever and have been pretty lucky. But I had a mistake on the drain pipe last year, the pipe escutcheon did not cover it. I solved it by using a piece of laminate the same color as the cabinet back. Cut a hole in it, slipped it over the pipe, glued with contact cement and replaced the escutcheon. As for electrical boxes, easy fix would be to just drill a hole in the cabinet back pull the wires through and mount a plastic surface mount box. I would do this only if the customer agreed to it.

[drumpriest]

Sink cut outs are pretty easy now a days, as they often give you a paper template. I lay out 2 axis and then use temp spray adhesive and attach from below the counter top, then use the jig saw, works great.

As for pipes, etc, much bigger pain in the butt. One trick that I've done is to setup axis from some point, and layout lines with a level, gets around the crooked wall issue pretty well. You just have to be able to translate that point to your back panel. I've done this by dry fitting a built-in, then marking the bottom intersection of the rabbet.

[leehljp]

I don't do this often but from experience over the years I usually inject redundancy into my plans. I do the X Y - and - another trial to see if they match. I make a mock up back board. In addition to a ruler for XY I use a marked stick.

With things like this, whether it is either expensive repair or ugly acceptance because of a missed cut, I am almost paranoid. "Measure twice, cut once" becomes measure 3 or 4 times, from different perspectives, make a mock up board too - if perfection is demanded. It might be overkill, but without 'daily' experience, I know enough to look for the unseen problems.

In '96, 2000, and 2005 when I was back in the States for a year, I did considerable work each year in our house there. Sinks, hanging book shelfs, cabinets, counters, relocating outlets, paneling - for some reason my prior experiences of wood work taught me to look for the unexpected.

The ONE thing that taught me this (that I can remember) is measurements of XY from two sides don't always (or usually) line up with measurements of XY from the other sides or corners. I.e. Ever check a sheet of plywood and find that it is not 48 by 96? Ever cut it and find out it is not square? Ever make a cabinet perfectly squared and find that the corner it is to be placed is NOT square?

I learned this years ago, and from that - learned that measurements must be taken from all sides and directions and even from a mock up. To me, it is worth the extra time to KNOW where & how the cutout is going to match up with my perceptions of where it should be.

[drumpriest]

Yeah Hank, that's why I establish axes on the wall with a level rather than measure off of the floor and other walls. They are NEVER square. :-D

[Salty]

Here is the back of part of a custom desk I am making. This is the cutout at the back of where the computer case will be located. Knowing this kind of thing weakens the plywood it is cut into, I tried to keep a few things in mind. First, to keep several inches of material on all sides. Also, to keep the opening as small as possible but big enough to do the job. And also, in keeping with what I was told years ago, to use rounded corners to help maintain the strength of the material.
As for cutting this out...the craftsman jig saw was the best method. I too find myself rechecking the measurements before cutting. I find it is also sometimes helpful to take a break just befor cutting and review the process in mind. There have been times where I have realized an error this way and saved some time and money.

Salty