Passage door proportions

[cbrown]

I am looking for a source of wisdom or formulas on proportions for stiles, rails, and panels for 4-panel passage doors (i.e., 80" tall, 1 3/8 thick, varying widths)--other than the obvious cheat of going down to HD and measuring the dimensions on what they have in stock. Many of the flush lauan doors in my 52-year old home are starting to delaminate all at once--the warranty on the glue must have run out!--and I got a set of Freud door bits on sale (as well as a Freud FT2200) to see whether I could mill some doors out of selected and prepared 2x stock.

Thanks,

Chris

[Pappy]

Unless you are bent on making your own, hit HD. They have 6 panel slab doors on sale for $19, any size.

[cabinetman]

Unless you are bent on making your own, hit HD. They have 6 panel slab doors on sale for $19, any size.

You are so right. If it is a fun project go ahead and give it a go. By the time you buy materials and spend the fabrication time you'll find out door making is a labor of technique. Production door manufacturers group stock and acclimate together. Their choices in materials are selected and prepared together, which is different that just going to a hardwoods supplier and picking up different pieces that are needed.


Your materials cost will probably be pretty high compared to what a production door will cost. It could be a great project that was fun and a good experience, or an expensive lesson. Get as much information about the whole process before you start. As we learned in the Boy Scouts - "Be Prepared".
.

[Bruce Cohen]

As I once worked in the Millwork dept of HD, if you dont see anything you like in stock, ask to see the Masonite catalog (and no, these aren't made of that rotten material), you'll be more than pleasantly surprised at what they can order for you, style, material and size wise. Of course, the cost goes up accordingly.

Just be sure to know what "handing" you need. That is. whrn you're standing on the outside of the door, A) Where is the handle? and B) Does the door swing out towards you or into the room or closet you're trying to enter. and one last thing. Interior doors are never made as an inswing (opens into the room), you have to reverse the door and the frame.

Also get pre-mounted doors, the extra cost justifies the installation ease.

Bruce

[JimD]

I made new interior doors for our last house. To keep the cost down, I planned down 2x4s for the stiles and top rail. My planner will only do 8 5/8 wide so I had a center rail and a bottom rail that was about 8 inches wide. I used #2 shelf boards for the raised panels. Raising was done on my table saw (pre-Bt3100). The middle rail was centered on the door knob because I wanted to re-use the existing door frames.

They still cost more than buying cheap hollow core doors but we thought they looked better. The biggest problem I had was the moisture level was a bit high on some of them and the center rail would shrink away from the center stile and leave fairly small gaps. They were not perfectly flat but that was not a big problem. If it is bad, you either make a new one or move the stop.

I used dowels in the joints for some and I used biscuits (double) for most of them. They worked fine.

More recently I've made a couple of flat panel doors for my current shop. The frames are construction lumber and the center panel is 1/2 MDF. I used mortise and tenon joints on them and made a moulding that surrounds the panel on the outside. The outside is painted after I hit them with a coat of shellac (to stop knot bleed through).

I am thinking of making a new door for our bedroom. I would probably use hardwood for it, maybe maple (the floors are oak and I think that is enough oak, our furniture is also oak in our bedroom). Hardwood would be dryer and nicer to work with.

Bottom line is I support your project as long as you add up the costs and decide it is worthwhile. I've had what I consider good luck making doors. They are not tiny projects but are less involved than a bed or dresser. Solid wood will never reliably be as flat as stuff made of sawdust but it doesn't looks like moulded sawdust and glue either.

I would draw out the proportions and see what looks good to you. That's what I do.

Jim

[cbrown]

Thanks for the replies. The project is motivated, like most of my woodworking, more out of a desire to make something with my hands to preserve my sanity than a realistic prognosis of saving much (if any) money. There is also the fact that some of the doors are unusual (at least not stock HD) sizes, e.g., 22". And given that HD pine doors sell for about $70, saving a little money is not out of the question, provided I don't bill for my time.

The Masonite catalogue does conveniently list dimensions for rails and stiles for their solid wood panel doors. A comparison with other doors reveals that there seems to be no single standard for proportions, except that the bottom rail is usually considerably wider than the rest of the elements. On a four panel door, the middle rail is nearly as wide as the bottom; on a six-panel, the two middle rails and the top rail are often the same width as the stiles. 5" seems to be a common stile width, including the sticking edge.

I have enough clear pine that has been sitting in my shop for a year to try a door. It will either be fun, or it wont, but it's sure to be a change from the day job! I will report and welcome further advice.

Chris

[Pappy]

Even though I suggested buying premade doors because they are time and material intensive I will agree to a point with Jim. There are times when what you need or want isn't available.

I ran into that on my back porch. The construction was all cedar and I wasn't happy with the flimsy screen doors in the big box stores. Better doors were available but at a premium ($250+) and in limited woods. The choice was to build my own.

[JimD]

Chris,

You haven't mentioned joints but that is a somewhat crucial element of a door. Mortise and tenon are traditional, for a good reason, they work. If you have a mortiser they would definitely be the way to go, IMHO. If you have a plunge router, with a spiral cut bit and a jig (to control size easily) you could do loose tenons which are easier to make fit tightly and just as strong if cut well. I had good luck with biscuits but many would avoid them. If you use biscuits, put as many in as you can and use #20. I had less good experience with dowels but that may have been partially due to my jig or skill.

You didn't mention the thickness of your pine but if it s 3/4, you can also do what I would call a sandwich door. You could make two doors a little under 3/4 inch (so they end up 1 3/8) 11/16 I guess and glue them together. I've never tried this but it should work fine. I've seen articles in magazines where they used this technique - one was an exterior door so it was 1 3/4 thick.

Jim

[cbrown]

I'm planning on using Beadlock loose tenons to connect rails and stiles. The pine is 2x lumber which I will plane down to 1 3/8"; the panels will be out of 3/4" pine. The Freud door set will do extended integral tenons on the rails, but I don't have a mortiser to cut the stiles.

I've read somewhere about doing the panels in two halves sandwiched together but not glued on exterior doors (perhaps it handles the temperature differential better?)

Chris

Chris,

You haven't mentioned joints but that is a somewhat crucial element of a door. Mortise and tenon are traditional, for a good reason, they work. If you have a mortiser they would definitely be the way to go, IMHO. If you have a plunge router, with a spiral cut bit and a jig (to control size easily) you could do loose tenons which are easier to make fit tightly and just as strong if cut well. I had good luck with biscuits but many would avoid them. If you use biscuits, put as many in as you can and use #20. I had less good experience with dowels but that may have been partially due to my jig or skill.

You didn't mention the thickness of your pine but if it s 3/4, you can also do what I would call a sandwich door. You could make two doors a little under 3/4 inch (so they end up 1 3/8) 11/16 I guess and glue them together. I've never tried this but it should work fine. I've seen articles in magazines where they used this technique - one was an exterior door so it was 1 3/4 thick.

Jim

[pelligrini]

A comparison with other doors reveals that there seems to be no single standard for proportions, except that the bottom rail is usually considerably wider than the rest of the elements.

The bottom rail is usually wider on most all production doors. One of the reasons is for differences in the undercut for the door, to clear carpet, rugs, etc.

[JimD]

Chris,

On the doors I built I was planning 2x lumber, like you, and I used one thickness of 1x lumber for the panels. I raised both sides on the table saw.

I do not know anything about the beadloc system. If you have a plunge router, you might think about a loose mortise and tenon, however. They are pretty easy and very strong. You can make a little jig to guide the router using a template guide bigger than the bit you are using or you can use the edge guide.

Jim