I was in the "borg" yesterday about to purchase 3/4" birch ply for the kitchen cabinets I'm about to build. They had some 3/4" cabinet grade ply that is actually 5/8". Is this acceptable (it's $10/sheet cheaper) or should I just stick with the true 3/4" (23/32") ply instead because the difference is more than negligible?
-
Dwayne -
Dwayne,
I've always used the stuff marketed 3/4. It is actually about 1/32 thinner than 3/4. If the cabinets are 24 inches or less wide or will have face frames, I think 5/8 would be fine. If they are wide and will not have a face frame, I would spend the extra $10.
Looking at it another way, stock cabinets with face frames are often 1/2 particle board. If you plan face frame cabinets, the 5/8 should be plenty. I do not use face frames which is part of the reason I go with 3/4.
Jim -
If the 5/8" is the same face type as you intended, and suitable for whatever finish you are planning, you won't notice a difference. Structurally, the difference will be minimal. They will weigh less and the sheets will be easier to handle. You should look your selection over closely for defects of any kind. Bulk BORG specials could include just about anything. If they check out OK, I say save the money and go for it.
.Comment
-
I also do frameless cabinets, and depending on the job, use 5/8" melamine for the carcass. I keep the carcass width up to 32", without experiencing a deflection problem. Comparing 5/8" ply to 5/8" melamine, the plywood will have more rigidity than the melamine.
Another reason for holding width dimensions to less than 32" is to get 3 rips out of the length of the sheet. There are some exceptions that are necessarily wider than 32", such as sink, pantry, or utility type cabinets.
Just a tip on the parts of the carcass. If you have a choice of which side is up or down, manage to get the horizontal members with any curve to be in the up position when assembling.
.Comment
-
I want to go frameless (after flirting with face frame and inset doors but thought that might be a a little much for my first project), but I'm struggling with figuring out how to add crown molding on the top of the wall units using this method, if it's possible.DwayneComment
-
If you're going frameless, figure the tops of the doors short in height to the top of the cabinet, by a small amount like an 1/8" for an overlay door. Make a frame that fits the top of the cabinet out of 3/4" plywood, 2"-3" wide that follows the line of the sides of the cabinets and the front of the doors. IOW, the front edge of the frame follows the outtermost line of the cabinets and the doors. If you can figure that edge slightly within the cabinet and door line, the joint between the crown and the cleat won't show.
Make it in sections so it will fit the tops of all the cabinets and the returns. Leave it loose. Join the frame in the sections you can work with so that you can mount the crown to the front edge of the frame on your bench, not on the cabinets. When you're done, you will have the crown mounted to these frames, and it can be then just placed on top of the cabinet and screwed down. When mounting to the cabinets, screw the cabinets that are in succession together. Mount frame to those that allow the cabinets to be separated, so when you install on the wall, everything fits. If you have room above the crown you could install crown/frames after the cabinets are installed.
The other method is to just mount a cleat to the top of the cabinet, following the side edges, and the front line of the doors, and after installing the cabinets, install the crown to the cleat.
I usually do the loose cleat/frame with the crown attached because in delivery, there is less of a possibility of damage, and it's faster on the job to mount pre-fitted and mounted crown/frames already mounted to fit.
When figuring the hanging height of the cabinet, remember the height of the crown, and forsee any interferences with lights or A/C vents, etc.
.Last edited by cabinetman; 01-05-2008, 01:22 PM.Comment
-
Around Baltimore the BORG carries an inexpensive "cabinet grade" plywood, around $27 per sheet. I used some recently for shop cabinets, and it was only marginally acceptable. The face veneers are only about 1/64" thick and chip off easily. None of the faces were attractive enough that I would want them to be in a visible area.
Structurally it's probably OK, if you can get the pieces assembled before they warp. Some of mine did a bit.
Maybe buy one sheet and cut it up to see what you think of it, first.Comment
-
Cabinetman,
Thanks for the information. I'm going to build a couple of mock up to get an idea of what I'm dealing with. During that time I will implement your suggestions. You stated that I need to use 3/4" plywood for the frame. Do I do this even if I use the 5/8" plywood as a carcass?
My family thinks I'm crazy for deciding to undertake this task, but I'm excited! They feel a little better after witnessing me make much of the molding for the living room doors, mostly flutes with the router (using it for the first time) and wainscotting with bead board. But these cabinets are a whole different ballgame. But as always, when I run into some difficulty I'll just inquire or scream for help!DwayneComment
-
I used the bargain "cabinet grade" plywood from BORG a while back (made in China). As pecker said, it was marginal - had a number of voids. One of the sheets in particular was junk, with large voids. Once I ripped the sheet in two, one side became very flexible (this was "3/4 inch" plywood).
I just recently bought more cabinet grade plywood. This time I skipped the BORG and bought the plywood from Menards. It cost more, but is made in the USA and was much better quality.Comment
-
I too have worked with the BORG's b. birch ply - its a nice color but its not really that stiff if your making tall carcasses. I made some pantry cabs that were being hidden inside a closet and were about 80" tall. The sides had flex and forced me to make adj. shelving into FIXED shelving
Also as someone else mentioned the veneer is ultra thin. There is a reason why the boards are cheaper!I think in straight lines, but dream in curves
Comment
-
I guess I thought initially you were talking about placing the plywood vertically instead of laying it flat. Now I fully understand. Also, as this thread as progressed, I'm getting the impression I may want to steer clear of the BORG plywood, or at least understand that it may have various limitations.
Feeling rather down because the Redskins just lost. Bummer!DwayneComment
-
The wall cabinets in the littel kitchenette in our basement are frameless with crown moulding (which also runs around the room). All I did was take 2x4 scraps from the walls and rip them at the angle that the crown would make to the wall and screw them to the top of the cabinet. Then I nailed the crown to the 2x4s. Same as idea as suggested by cabinetman, I think. Bottom line is you need blocking of some sort. Blocking would be a good idea if you had a face frame too.
JimComment
-
Jim,
Where is a place in the area to get good plywood for my cabinets? I live in Aiken County (North Augusta) which is not too far from you.DwayneComment
-
I finally went to the Menard's on the west side of Madison to check out their plywood. I was pleasantly surprised to see that they have some made in the U.S. I think some, though, is probably from China. I'm making some mobile shop storage cabinets and wanted something better than the Chinese Maple plywood from Home Depot that I had used previously for some shop cabinets. I too noticed the voids in the HD plywood and many of the plies were not parallel with each other.
The 3/4-inch plywood that I checked out at Menards included "Birch Veneer" for $44.98, "Classic Birch" for $35.88, and Baltic Birch for $69.99. I went with the Birch Veneer, since it looks pretty nice for shop cabinets and is made in the U.S. When cut, no voids are delaminated plies were observed.
On a side note, I had the opportunity this past weekend to use my new Festool TS 55 EQ circular saw to cut my sheet stock to size for my mobile cabinet. It gives an awesome cut! I bought this saw since I don't have much shop space, and definitely not enough room to cut a full sheet of plywood. Now I just need to cut the sheets once rather than cut pieces oversize then trim to size on my BT3000.Comment
Comment