Don't Ya Just Hate It When...

[crokett]

Working on the bench project. It involves a bunch of parts - 8 rails, 8 stiles, some dividers on the ply panels, the panels and few other odds n ends. I am matching an existing piece. Anyhoo, I've been taking longer - measuring thrice and cutting once, etc - to try and avoid some dumb mistakes. So this morning I set up the dado stack to cut the rabbets in the rails and stiles and cut a rabbett 1/2" wide and 1/4" deep in the first piece when it shoulda been 1/2" deep and 1/4" wide.

[leehljp]

That is when I try to figure out what side of my brain was speaking when I made a dumb cut. I know the feeling!

[cabinetman]

Working on the bench project. It involves a bunch of parts - 8 rails, 8 stiles, some dividers on the ply panels, the panels and few other odds n ends. I am matching an existing piece. Anyhoo, I've been taking longer - measuring thrice and cutting once, etc - to try and avoid some dumb mistakes. So this morning I set up the dado stack to cut the rabbets in the rails and stiles and cut a rabbett 1/2" wide and 1/4" deep in the first piece when it shoulda been 1/2" deep and 1/4" wide.

I don't want to sound like a stuffy know-it-all, but I know exactly what you're talking about. When I started out, I had to develop a good paper trail for the work as I wasn't too experienced in the whole process from concept to finish.

In the beginning my mistakes were from trying to keep too much info in my head. I would have a particular project with many different size drawers. I would cut the sides, fronts and backs and then start machining for the dado (groove), and rabbets, or set up for DT's. I would have them in stacks all separated and after many were done realize that some drawers were wider than long. In my head, I had envisioned the drawers were longer (front to back) than they were wide. So, my mistake was treating the long pieces (actually fronts & backs) as sides.

To solve this dilemma, I decided I can't leave anything for guesswork. My drawings changed. I would start with an elevation (lets say for a kitchen). I would make several copies of those pages, and used like this:

ELEVATION: This was used for the overall general dimensions of the cabinets. I would use a number or letter for each opening as a reference.

DOORS: This was used to mark each door with a number or letter.

DRAWERS: This was used for each drawer with a number or letter.

SHELVES: This was used for each shelf with a number or letter.

PARTS LIST: From the drawings for the cabinets, each cabinet would be drawn as an "explosion drawing". This would show each panel to the cabinet and it's size and any machining needed for joining. At this point all the joining would be figured out with any dimensions added to the drawing. This would eliminate any discrepancy between ends and tops and bottoms for close to square cabinets. A separate list was made from this showing the cabinet number or letter and it's parts with sizes.

LAYOUT CUT SHEET: This was basically a sheet with several rectangles drawn representing 4x8 sheets. On those rectangles would be layouts of the parts. This would determine the best cut patterns for maximum sheet usage and minimum waste. The sizes on this comes from the parts list showing the number or letter of each piece in the rectangle. This would also tell me how many 4x8's I will need.

PLAN VIEW: This drawing shows the total layout and is marked accordingly to correspond with the other drawings.

CUT LIST: This list had all the parts to be cut, for everything, with the corresponding number or letter and it's size. When cut, it's checked off the list.

As any piece gets cut, it is marked as it appears on the sheets. At any time I can track where a piece came from and where it goes and what to do with it. For example, the drawers. As I look at my sheets, I know what drawer goes where, all the pieces to each drawer, and the pieces are marked as is the drawing.

This is a general overview that takes out any doubt about what is what or where it goes. As any piece is cut, it's marked and likewise marked off on the drawing so I know what's been cut. From looking at what has been marked off the sheets I'll know if I'm missing any parts. This seems a bit paperish, but it works. It provides a check and balance on the project's entirety and all of its parts. There's just too much to keep track of without having the documentation. How effective it is depends on how well everything is listed and marked.
.

[leehljp]

Dang cabinetman, I can't read that much paper trail in one setting! If I can't fit it all on one sheet of paper, I don't tackle it! (My brain can't handle it.)

I made a covered double swing 7 or 8 years ago and started with the width of my wife's behind and mine too plus 4 inches. That became the "foundational' measurements around which the seat was made; from there the "A" frame was developed around that.

Keeping in Crokett's theme here, I did make a couple of measurement mistakes in sawing on the A frame, but recovered well enough.

[cabinetman]

Dang cabinetman, I can't read that much paper trail in one setting! If I can't fit it all on one sheet of paper, I don't tackle it! (My brain can't handle it.)

I know it sounds like volumes of docu, but really it's just a plan with sections. At first it did seem like a fire drill with redundancy, but each project is really a puzzle in which you make the parts and then have to put them together as they fit.

I found the drawings provided a record of my progress during the whole process that gave me a running account of the puzzle. Some jobs are really large with many drawers and doors and shelves, accurate paperwork makes the brainwork much more effective. It makes you want to celebrate when you get to the end and everything fits, nothing is missing, and you don't have spare parts.

[crokett]

Mike

That wasn't stuffy at all.

For this one one thing I did differently was I did have a cutlist, well I had 2 - one for the panels and 1 for the rails/stiles. Usually the plan is in my head or on a napkin or something. I also labeled each part with what part of the project it was for and the dimensions. When it was cut I crossed it off the list. This wasn't anything more than setting it up incorrectly and making the mistake of not running a test piece.

[scmhogg]

David, I've done the same thing. Except that I did all the pieces before I realized I had the dimensions wrong. Glue in strips of wood, plane smooth, and start over. No pics, didn't happen.

Hank--Don't gain any weight.

Steve

[JimD]

For painted projects, bondo will work (to cover up mistakes).

Jim

[big tim]

.......cut, it's checked off the list.

As any piece gets cut, it is marked as it appears on the sheets. At any time I can
..............

On the basis that there are no dumb questions, cab-man, here goes one: How and with what do you typically mark things so it doesn't potentially interfere with finishing later?

Tim

[leehljp]

Hank--Don't gain any weight.

Steve

Setting / sitting - Fingers going too fast. OK I will move about more!

Good thread David! Misery loves company!

[leehljp]

On the basis that there are no dumb questions, cab-man, here goes one: How and with what do you typically mark things so it doesn't potentially interfere with finishing later?

Tim

Tim, That is a good question. I have to think, think and re-think when to finish which parts - before and or after assembly. For me it is the experience of past mistakes, the memory that I did make the mistake, but the time frame that allowed me to forget just which steps, in which order, are needed for correct finish and assembly.

[cabinetman]

On the basis that there are no dumb questions, cab-man, here goes one: How and with what do you typically mark things so it doesn't potentially interfere with finishing later?

Tim

Most of the time the panels are marked on an edge. Any piece will have either a surface or an edge that will get covered up. Pencil works good. If the marking is critical to appear on the face. a piece of masking tape can be pencil marked. Face marking may denote which way the panel is to be used, or which face is the outside or inside. You get a very organized feeling to see a stack of panels that have identifiers on the edge that keeps them together.

There are times when all the parts are cut, it would be hard to tell cabinet parts (panels) from shelves from doors from dividers, without some kind of marking. I can pick up any piece from anywhere and check the marking and look at the paperwork and know exactly where it goes, and the size it's supposed to be. This system is invaluable when there is more than one project going on at a time.

[leehljp]

Most of the time the panels are marked on an edge. Any piece will have either a surface or an edge that will get covered up. Pencil works good. If the marking is critical to appear on the face. a piece of masking tape can be pencil marked. Face marking may denote which way the panel is to be used, or which face is the outside or inside. You get a very organized feeling to see a stack of panels that have identifiers on the edge that keeps them together.

You know, I did just that (marked the panel edges) the only time I made cabinet doors - for a hutch. I wanted opposing knots to match and didn't want to get caught in a "construction" only mode. On the grain of the rail and stiles, I put a piece of masking tape pencil marked to note which side went which way. I couldn't handle it all in my mind. This was an unusual situation for me and except for my multi-router - router table, I rarely marked down more than a few measurements.