Melamine cabinet construction questions

**ragswl4** · 08-14-2007, 02:35 PM

Here is a link for ordering PB screws: http://www.cabinetmaking.com/pages/hardware.htm

In Danny Proulx's book, "Build Your Own Kitchen Cabinets", he uses particle board for the cases and recommends 2 1/2" PB screws and no glue using only butt joints. I have built cabinets like these. He also recommends pilot holes for all screws. Don't drive a screw closer than 2" to the end of the PB or you will risk splitting it. For a 30"x30" case I put 5 screws per side in the back for a total of 20. Connecting tops to sides I used three per joint for a total of 12. Total screws per case is 32 for a 30x30. Do not use excessive torque when setting PB screws or you risk stripping out the PB. I use a setting of 5 on my Dewalt drill/driver.

Where were you planning on using pocket screws?

I use them for attaching face frames to the case. Since the threaded portion of the screw goes into the hardwood face frame, there is little if any risk in using pocket screws for this purpose.

**Anna** · 08-14-2007, 03:21 PM

Hey, Rags,

Thanks. I thought I had that Proulx book, but I can't find it. I'll see if I can get it from the library.

What size particle board screw do I use for 3/4" boards?

I thought of using pocket screws in place of particle board screws for the joinery. One attraction of using melamine is I don't have to have face frames for it (my last attempt at face frames is still smarting). I'll be using just edge banding.

Anna

P.S. Forgot to ask: do I countersink, counterbore, neither, or either?

**jziegler** · 08-14-2007, 03:26 PM

I did some stuff with Melamine using the 50mm Confirmat screws from McFeely's, and it worked out well. They are cheaper than the PB screws that Rags linked to. Here's a kit that includes a bit and some extras: http://mcfeelys.com/product/7050-CSP...ew-Starter-Kit

The overall page they have for confirmat: http://mcfeelys.com/subcat.asp?sid=399

Don't bother with HD, for any "speciality" fasteners, their prices are far too high. Much higer than shipping will add to mail order.

Jim

Edit:

Oops, sorry, the screws Rags shows are cheaper, I was looking at the wrong line. Consider this another option.

**Anna** · 08-14-2007, 03:36 PM

Jim, thanks for the link. I've been looking for the Confirmat screws kit I've read about in another forum. I didn't know about McFeely's.

Is there a distinct advantage to using Confirmat versus particle board screws? When you made your cabinets, did you add glue?

Anna

**cabinetman** · 08-14-2007, 03:43 PM

For butt joints on 3/4" melamine, I use 2 1/4", or 2 1/2" coarse thread drywall screws, and they are either a #7 or #8. Try to get a #7 if you have a choice. I countersink and pilot (all in one bit). Try to drill the hole as centered and 90 degrees on the 3/4" as possible. When tightening, set your speed to low (if you have variable speed) and when it gets close to seating just bump it tight. You don't really need glue, but it cant hurt. If you use Gorilla Glue or a poly glue, don't get carried away. It will foam up. It reacts with the moistened mates, so don't get the edge too wet. There is a melamine glue specifically for melamine.

**Tequila** · 08-14-2007, 04:00 PM

I've used long (2"+) drywall screws with a lot of success in the past. The Home Depot's around here carry particle board screws in their specialty hardware section. They're packaged on carboard backing with a plastic shell, and hang in the same are as the the shelf pins.

**ragswl4** · 08-14-2007, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by Anna

Hey, Rags,

Thanks. I thought I had that Proulx book, but I can't find it. I'll see if I can get it from the library.

What size particle board screw do I use for 3/4" boards?

I thought of using pocket screws in place of particle board screws for the joinery. One attraction of using melamine is I don't have to have face frames for it (my last attempt at face frames is still smarting). I'll be using just edge banding.

Anna

P.S. Forgot to ask: do I countersink, counterbore, neither, or either?

Use #7 or #8, 2 1/2" screws, countersink. I first countersink and then drill the pilot hole. Make sure the pilot hole is at least as deep as the screw is long. Cabinetman gave a good recommendation on seating the screws.

I would not recommend pocket hole screws for this type of joinery.

I have made a number of cabinets in this fashion and I believe them to be very strong (also very heavy). I think that using glue may be overkill. The reason is that if the screws fail I don't think the glue will hold the case together by itself. Danny Poulx agrees.

My experience for drilling the holes is to draw a line on the melamine to ensure you get the middle of the PB. Also use some type of guide to ensure the hole is straight. A piece of hardwood with a guide hole works very good. Its easy to blow out the PB if the screw doesn't go in straight. Learned this on the first case.

Here is another source for an acceptable screw: http://mcfeelys.com/product/0824-FSK...at-Head-Screws

**cabinetman** · 08-14-2007, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by ragswl4

Use #7 or #8, 2 1/2" screws, countersink. I first countersink and then drill the pilot hole. Make sure the pilot hole is at least as deep as the screw is long. Cabinetman gave a good recommendation on seating the screws.
I would not recommend pocket hole screws for this type of joinery.

Rags

Thanks for mentioning the no go on the pocket holes. I forgot to comment on that. Definitely no pocket holes. Almost all the melamine cabinets I've done were out of 5/8", and I used 2" screws, no glue. No problem. But, that pilot hole does have to be centered. I don't drill to the depth of the screw. I leave some meat there for when the screw shank tapers up to its full width, maybe 3/8" or so.

**Anna** · 08-14-2007, 05:57 PM

So to recap: I need #7, 2.5"-long coarse-thread drywall screws, countersunk. No glue needed. Try to center it on the melamine and drill pilot holes in as straight as possible. I'll guess they should be about 6" apart.

And definitely no pocket holes.

Hope I got that right.

Thanks for all the input. I already have the drywall screws from a bunch of other projects I've done. If they work, then all I have to do is get the melamine boards.

Thanks again,
Anna

**ragswl4** · 08-14-2007, 06:17 PM

Originally posted by Anna

So to recap: I need #7, 2.5"-long coarse-thread drywall screws, countersunk. No glue needed. Try to center it on the melamine and drill pilot holes in as straight as possible. I'll guess they should be about 6" apart.

And definitely no pocket holes.

Hope I got that right.

Thanks for all the input. I already have the drywall screws from a bunch of other projects I've done. If they work, then all I have to do is get the melamine boards.

Thanks again,
Anna

Cabinetman (who I believe has more experience than me) stated that 2" screws would suffice. Also suggest that you re-read his post about pilot hole length. I strongly recommend that you make a simple jig to ensure that the pilot holes are straight. Very frustrating if that screw comes out the side of the panel. 6" apart, perfect. Not close to the end of the PB. Good luck, you'll find the cases go together rather easily.

Here is a simple jig to use for the pilot holes. The MDF is held against the side of the PB panel and the part with the holes sits on the edge of the PB. Drill the hole and move to the next position. The hole should be centered on the PB edge. This particular jig is used for European hinges on face frames but the concept is the same.

**Anna** · 08-14-2007, 06:32 PM

Originally posted by ragswl4

Cabinetman (who I believe has more experience than me) stated that 2" screws would suffice.

I think he said 2.25" or 2.5" will work. He used 2" screws with 5/8" boards. I'll be using 3/4", and I'm going with 2.5" because I already have those screws.

I was actually thinking of tacking the pieces with brad nails before drilling, just to clamp them together. I have Vix bits which I thought of using, but maybe a jig like yours will be better.

**jziegler** · 08-14-2007, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by Anna

Jim, thanks for the link. I've been looking for the Confirmat screws kit I've read about in another forum. I didn't know about McFeely's.

Is there a distinct advantage to using Confirmat versus particle board screws? When you made your cabinets, did you add glue?

Anna

No glue, just the screws. McFeely's is a good source of screws, just not always the lowest price.

I don't know if there is a real advantage, but I got the kit to salvage a project I was having trouble with using MDF, and went from there. It worked, so next time I used them. I didn't build whole cabinets with them, but a couple of large, tall bookcases for my in-laws. Got it all done in one day.

Jim

**mschrank** · 08-15-2007, 10:15 AM

Looks like you already have plenty of good advice, but I just wanted to throw in another vote for the McFeely's option. I recently built some huge base cabs out of 3/4" melamine to house our front-loading washer & dryer (wanted to raise them up off the floor a bit).

The McFeely's kit contains everything you need, stepped drill bit, confirmat screws, and pozi-driver bit. The cabs turned out rock solid w/o glue.

I'm not disputing Cabinetmans recommendation (he has way more experience than me), but I'm not a big fan of using drywall screws for woodworking...I've had too many of them break. If you ever want to disassemble the cabs for any reason, I've found that trying to remove drywall screws often results in the head popping off.

**Anna** · 08-15-2007, 10:47 AM

Jim and Mike,

Thanks for the replies. I've used dry wall screws on plywood and pine, and they've worked so far. But I think I'll get the McFeely's kit (it's not too expensive) and try that out, too. I'll be working on some closet stuff with melamine, so it might be more appropriate to use confirmat in that project anyway.

Thanks again,
Anna

Melamine cabinet construction questions

Melamine cabinet construction questions

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