Finishing queries for red oak hw & ply

[radhak]

There's been many threads on this in the past that gave me quite a bit of input but wanted some more inputs :

I am builiding a large book-case with red oak ply and red oak face frame. planning for the finish, i researched and narrowed my options to :

- minwax wipe-on poly
- minwax red oak polyshades (stain and poly combined)
- tung oil ?
- Minwax® Polycrylic® Protective Finish ?
- Minwax® Fast-Drying Polyurethane ?

i found that many experts despise the 2-in-1 mix, tho with my limited experience i could not understand why.

i like the look and feel of oak (would have loved cherry, but my wallet hates it ), am just ambivalent about staining it too much (as in too much amber or too much brown). just a tinge of amber might look nice. so will the polyshades above be a bad idea?

so my doubts are
- HD has the minwax wop for $8 a pint (twice the cost of regular poly ) and it's only clear satin. so does this give any color to red oak, or does it leave pristine 'clear'?
- i understood that the wop is nothing but regular poly diluted. diluted with what? could i do that at home? and which poly should i pick?
- what are these other types of poly from minwax? obviously their website extols all of these as suitable for furniture, finished or unfinished wood
- i have used shellac in the past, been okay then but don't want the deep amber for this project. so i could use the 'clear' shellac from zimmser. but would i need to give some protective coat over it too? they say not to use poly on top of it unless i have the clearcoat shellac which of course is not available locally
- and does shellac make sense here?
- finally, could i use a roller with any/all of these? or is wipe-on with cloth easier than poly. (as you can tell, i am not looking forward to the finishing at all )

btw, i will have to assemble the case indoors, so i will have to finish all pieces in the garage before-hand. which means a lot of space needed but not available. so i am trying to think up of some of a rig to hold all the panels on their sides while i go around finishing them. something like a clothesline ( ) with clips just to hold them so it does not crash down in big-bang. (hopefully i can get that right). which is why the wipe-on seems a good.

i love my Critter, but am guessing this is gonna be too large a surface area to do it justice.

[Ken Massingale]

Morning radhak,
I kinda recently did a small entertainment center with RO ply and solid RO trim.
I sealed everything with Zinnser Sealcoat from Lowes/HD. It's not in the finish section, it is with the primers like Kiltz.
I finished with the Minwax WipeOn poly applied with soft cloths. We like how the finish came out. Everything is ply except the trim.

[cabinetman]

I also like the feel of wood and try to use finishes that enhance the project. If your intent is to lightly tint the wood, I suggest a water based stain that you mix. You can start as diluted as you please and increase the intensity gradually. Of course this would be done on samples.

The Wipe On Poly is an oil based poly, that you would thin with mineral spirits (paint thinner).

I am liking water based more and more since I got out of the lacquer routine. It doesn't dry as fast as lacquer but it is pretty quick. So, here's my suggestion. Use a water based stain/or dye, and use the water based polyurethane. You can spray, brush, or wipe it on. There's no smelling up the house, and a water clean up. Another plus is it'll dry faster than oil based products.

As for setting up a drying area, If you have to do all the prep work with the pieces loose, what I've done is to set up a rail system. I've done this with shelves and doors, when there were gobs of 'em.

You could use 8' long 3/4" of solid wood (pine or anything), maybe 2" - 3" wide. Use two and set them up like railroad tracks. You then stand up the panel across both rails so it will free stand. I usually use the top edge of an upper door, or the bottom edge of a base door, to tack to the rails. For shelves I'll use the back edge. I've made "trees" that stand up about 7' with dowels sticking out to set shelves in for drying, but, one side is always down.

Just a note about prepping for staining. The smoother you sand the bare wood, the less penetration you get with the stain. On red oak, 220 is about as far as I go, and 320 between coats.

[radhak]

Thanks guys, very informative.

Ken, I remembered your piece and had already searched it out for inspiration. Beautiful work! Lemme check out the primer section today.

CM, did not realize water-based poly has less odor too. i think i might go that route. i am thinking the zimmser sealcoat followed by a water-based poly.

and that description of the track rail system is just what i was looking for. i shall rig something up similar. thanks.

[drumpriest]

My favorite combo is general finishes' seal-a-cell and arm-r-seal. It's a system that blends tung oil, linseed oil, and urethane, gives a great amber tone and hardens nicely, can be rubbed out to a mirror sheen if you want, or knocked down with steel wool and left satin.

[radhak]

Keith,

Is that Would that work for Red Oak too (open pores and all)?

And where do you buy these? (I am hoping you name the big stores

[Jeffrey Schronce]

If you are looking for a simple application for red oak and want to retain the natural look then I agree Seal-A-Cell followed by Arm-R-Seal. Seal A Cell imparts a bit of warmth more than Arm-R-Seal. Those are not avail at HD/Lowes/paint stores rather you will likely get them from Rockler, Woodcraft, etc.

If you want to stick to HD/Lowes stuff only I would recommend Watco Danish oil in natural. Allow it to fully cure and follow with home made wipe on poly. 50% poly to 50% mineral spirits. Since you use the Watco you can skip the boiled linseed oil in the wipe on mixture.

Having said above statements, I really think Arm-R-Seal / Seal-A-Cell is a fool proof way for a beginner to get an excellent finish. I am not a big fan of Minwax products.

I note that you stated Minwax WOP was satin only. I believe they have a high gloss, however a high gloss finish is much less forgiving for a beginner IMHO. A low luster satin would likely be your best bet.

Like Cabinetman I am warming up to water based finishes but again I feel that Minwax water based products are inferior to most others. I think that oil based products will be easier for a new finisher.

BTW, Ken that is some good looking red oak. Nice tight grain without a lot of cathedrals.

[Ken Massingale]

My favorite combo is general finishes' seal-a-cell and arm-r-seal. It's a system that blends tung oil, linseed oil, and urethane, gives a great amber tone and hardens nicely, can be rubbed out to a mirror sheen if you want, or knocked down with steel wool and left satin.

I believe GF has fessed up to removing the Tung Oil a few years ago, Keith. It's still good stuff, real good.

[radhak]

Looks like I might drive up to Woodcraft today/tomorrow for these two.

In the meanwhile i might have another option - a neighbor tells me he got a smaller, unfinished bookcase last year and finished it with Watco Teak Oil Finish from Lowes. He did not give it any other protection as it's always indoors and is very unlikely to get water on it. I went and checked - it seems to be in good shape still.

I borrowed some and tried it on the test pieces and gave me a nice smooth finish with no sanding whatsoever - both on the ply and the hardwood. The color it brings out is not too dark, at least on one coat. Neighbor says he did 3 coats and his is a bit darker, but nothing i'd object too.

So does anybody thing that's also an option - WTOF on RO?

(Checked the msds on that product -
Hydrotreated distilate, light 21-30%
Solvent naphtha (petroleum) 1-10%
Linseed Oil, Acid Refined 1-10%
Cobalt Compounds <1 %
dunno what the rest 50% is)

[Pappy]

Ken, how did you apply the Sealcoat? Can says it can be sprayed, which should cut dry time between coats. On the downside, spraying may make the coat thickness too thin to seal the pores and give me a smooth a base for the top coat. Working on a bar from Red Oak Ply and stock. It's stained dark and I want to limit the sanding as much as possible so I don't cut the color.

[drumpriest]

If you are looking to do a rub out to get a perfectly smooth as glass finish, you'll want to fill the pores of your Red oak. There are many pore fillers available on the market. I've user seal-a-cell and arm-r-seal on both filled and unfilled red oak in the past. The finishes work fine either way, but where the grain is you'll feel in the finish. Still holds up great though.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

So does anybody thing that's also an option - WTOF on RO?

I would use Watco Danish Oil - Natural Finish. Performs just like Teak Oil but has a natural reddish color that goes nicely with oak versus slightly yellowish tint of Teak oil. Understand that this stuff (Danish or Teak) provides little protection against bad things like water, etc. However it is very easy to put on a real thin coat to freshen things up after a few years.

They have it at HD, Lowes, WC etc.

Here is the whole Watco line up . . .

http://www.rustoleum.com/brand.asp?f...3&SBL=1&slid=1

Edit : HD, Lowes has Watco Natural finish and Watco Teak Oil only I believe. They do not have all the Watco colors. Having said that I like the natural on red oak anyway. I would avoid the Golden Oak. It is sooo tired looking.

[Ken Massingale]

Ken, how did you apply the Sealcoat? Can says it can be sprayed, which should cut dry time between coats. On the downside, spraying may make the coat thickness too thin to seal the pores and give me a smooth a base for the top coat. Working on a bar from Red Oak Ply and stock. It's stained dark and I want to limit the sanding as much as possible so I don't cut the color.

Pap, I wiped it on with a rag. I did the top and ends in sections on the first coat, then did a quick 2nd coat over the whole area. That Sealcoat really makes the topcoat(s) come out even.