Plywood and finish

[Tom H]

Hello everyone,

Finally about to finish the first real project after buying the Sears BT clone. It's a 4' x 4' x 18" cabinet for the garage. Not nearly as refined or attractive as many of the things I've seen posted here....trying to learn the skills so I can make something my girlfriend will let me put in the house...she's pretty particular about decorating.

I got the plywood at a lumber outlet. The guy who sold it to me said it was "mil cert." Anyone know what that means?

It has what looks like a veneer finish. It looks ok as it is, but I countersunk the screws, so after filling the holes with wood putty, I plan on finishing or painting it. So, wondering about the following;

If I sand the cabinet (after filling the holes), will I ruin the veneer?

Should I use stain or paint? If paint, then should I use a primer?

Does the "mil cert" plywood take any kind of finish, or is the point of the veneer that you don't put on any kind of finish?

Thanks in advance for the input.

Tom

[thestinker]

Sanding would be a good thing...just do it with caution, you can sand all the way through the vener and expose the particle board stuff underneath. After you fill your holes and sand you can paint or stain...which ever you prefer. I always recomend primer on raw wood. It gives the paint a better surface to adhear to and will make the paint job last longer and look better. Also post some picks when you get done with it. I can't hold a candle to most of the people around this forum...but I sure have learned a bunch since I founf it, and they all have wonder things to say about everyones projects

[JimD]

Latex primer is easiest to use. On pine, you need Kilz. There is a latex version or you can keep an old brush in paint thinner and just shake it out between coats if you use the original (which is a better stain blocker). I typically use the latex version of Kilz for wood even when it is not softwood. It cleans up easy and is pretty good primer.

I don't like to use stains, I prefer to use wood the color I want in the finished piece, but when I do, I ususally just use Minwax oil based. It is the most readily available. I wipe it on with a rag or paper towel. You can control the color that way. Try it on scrap to see if you like it.

The easiest clear finish is wipe on poly. You can buy it mixed or mix you own out of oil based poly thinned about 1/3 with mineral spirits. With enough coats, this is very durable.

Jim

[crokett]

You can paint or stain. If you stain, figure out what color you want and then try to match the putty to the stain as best you can.

If you paint it I like Elmer's wood filler. If you want a really smooth finish, prime then sand with 180grit paper or better. Then paint it.

[Tom H]

Thanks for the tips. I'm leaning toward stain, definitely going to try it on a piece of scrap first. I'm doing some work today before the game then heading out for sand paper dics for my new Bosch ros.

[Garasaki]

I personally don't like to stain my pieces. I think wood is beautiful naturally, and don't like to screw with natures beauty by adding a bunch of artificial color. My own personal preference.

What I would do in your shoes, is throw on a coat of Danish Oil to help pop the grain a little then overcoat with a protective, clear coat. Your choice on the clear coat, just keep in mind what level of durability you like.

Also, I wouldn't do A LOT of sanding on it...just sort of introduce it to some 180 or 220 grit paper. Assuming the plywood you have is relatively smooth to begin with.

Garage projects are excellent opportunity's to try out different finishing techniques, so dont' stress too much about whatever road you choose to travel...view it as a learning experience.

[rh111]

If a person is making a project that is to be painted and needs a good sandable primer, Zinnser Bin Primer is excellent. It is basically a pirmented shellac (white). It goes on easy, dries quickly, and sands nicely. It is great for those painted projects that you are wanting to get just a tad nicer than the rest. I have used it throught the kitchen remodel that I am doing and have loved it. Once word of caution to using it, get a painters respirator before you open the can. It is alchol based and will get you back into the 70's in no time.

[WayneJ]

Not sure about the "mil cert". Could be its military certified. The gov was sending a lot of plywood overseas to Iraq. Just a guess.
Wayne

[Tom H]

I don't think I've heard of Danish oil, but that idea sounds interesting. The finish on the wood looks good, except in a few places where it has been repaired. I've tried to keep the repaired surfaces on the inside of the cabinet, but some are on the outside. I did layout (measured and penciled) most of the parts before I started cutting, but didn't plan far enough ahead to have all the inside and outside surfaces picked. Like Garasaki said, good garage project to learn on.

Since I countersunk the screws, I filled the holes with "plastic wood." Don't know one wood putty from another, but it's what I used. If I use Danish oil and clear coat, my guess is that these filled holes will be visible. For that matter, I don't know if stain would completely hide them.

Is there a way to hide (or mostly hide) them from view (better match of putty ), or do you (meaning any of you) just let them show. Or do you have another technique than countersinking and filling with putty?

[Garasaki]

Tom,

I feel I would be remiss not to point out that one of the great challenges of "fine" woodworking is (This is my own opinion btw) finding out ways to aviod the use of metal fasteners, or place them where they cannot easily be seen.

This is not to say screws have no place in woodworking (lord knows I've cobbled together MANY of things with drywall screws) as they certainly are convienent, but for items like cabinets, I try to avoid using them by relying on dado's and rabbets or pocket screws for most jointing tasks. Also, I keep reading that (properly) glued joints are stronger then screws alone (you often see the term "glued and screwed" and in that case the screws are only used to act as a clamp for the glue, btw).

I might suggest one approach would be to accent your screw holes rather then hide them. One way to do this would be to buy some dowel rod at the local hardware store/borg that contrasts with the color of the plywood (you may have to use stain to get it to do that). Then make sure your screw holes are evenly spaced and form a straight line (for aestetics SP??). Make your countersink holes the same diameter as the dowel you bought, cut the dowel into "plugs" that are about the depth of your countersink, and stuff them into the countersink holes (with a dab of glue). Level them a little "proud" of the plywood, then come back later and sand them smooth.

Now, rather then a bunch of holes in your plywood with screws in them, you only see a pleasing pattern of dots on the plywood.

IRT danish oil, it's availabe at almost every hardware store or borg. There's nothing magical about it, it's just tung oil (or is it boiled linseed oil?? I can't remember) with small amounts of some other stuff added. It forms some basic protection and seals (to a degree) the wood, but wouldn't stand up to high traffic (which is why you would want a protective overcoat added).

[Tom Slick]

here is your answer for "mil-cert" actually "mill certified" from
http://extension.oregonstate.edu/cat...h/4-h4422c.pdf.

Mill-Certified or Shop Grade Plywood
Some plywood is sold as mill-certified plywood.
It also may be called shop plywood or shop cutting
panels. This is plywood that has some defects that keep
it from being sold as a standard grade. Mill-certified
or shop plywood is found most often in areas where
plywood is made. This is in the southern and western
coast states. It may not be available in areas that are
a long way from plywood plants. Mill-certified and
shop plywood costs less than standard-grade panels.
Many good, small pieces of plywood can be cut from
mill-certified panels.

my guess is that it's not APA certified therefore it's mill certified

[Tom H]

Thanks Garasaki, very useful suggestions. If I ever do get the skills to make something loml will let me put in the house, I will need to think about making it nice looking as well as functional. My dad has made a few things for my daughter. Lately I have been paying more attention when I look at items made from wood (imagine that) and I noticed that some of the things he made do show the filled holes, without looking bad at all. Like you said, uniformity is important.

Tom, I thought I googled mil cert to death. Thanks for finding it! I guess I should have known there was a reason the plywood I bought was cheaper than the certified stuff next to it. Mil cert must be for projects when looks don't necassarily matter. I bought a WW book and am just starting to figure out what all the codes mean.