Gluing up cherry panel

[kwc]

Hello,

Newbie here. I'm starting my first "major" project -- a small bookcase for our office. I'm building it out of cherry plywood w/solid cherry trim, and would like to put a solid cherry top on it. The solid panel top is where I need some advice from those with more experience than I (should be most of you!).

I found some rough-cut cherry "shorts" (6' length) at our lumber yard, who planed them to S3S (6.5" x 13/16") for me. I plan to cut one into about 20" lengths, square the fourth edge of each with the table saw, and glue three pieces side-by-side to make the panel. Final dimension is ~17" x 16".

Here's the million-dollar question: since I don't have a joiner or a planer, is it possible to get these to match up reasonably well to look good? Can I successfully hand-plane the edges (and the face, once glued) with something like the GRÖZ Bench Plane, #3 Smooth, 9" #147636 available here:

http://www.woodcraft.com/family.aspx...lySpecial=True

Equipment cost, for the moment, is a concern... hence my desire to go with an inexpensive method such as a bench plane.

Also, can I route and cut across the grain after glue-up or will that affect the structural integrity of the panel?

Thanks for the advice,
kwc

[Tom Miller]

It all depends on your skill level with the plane; both in getting it to perform well, and you performing well with it. This isn't the best plane for jointing, but it could certainly be used to clean up an edge that's close to being ready for jointing from the table saw.

If you're not sure about the plane, it's also possible that you could get joint-ready edges (at least good enough) straight from the table saw. You should use featherboards to help achieve a very straight cut. After cutting to width, make a second cut of about half kerf width to clean up the edge. You may find this edge is acceptable for jointing as is. If you haven't bought the plane yet, I'd try this first.

I'm assuming you don't have a router....(?)

Regards,
Tom

[linear]

I think you can get a gluable ripped edge on the BT3100 with the stock blade IF your fence is carefully squared, and you have a reasonable feed rate, and a clean sharp blade.

Cherry is notable for wanting to burn. If you own a router, you may want to look at some of the "edge jointing with a router" threads we have around here.

My advice: try it.

On the handplane, skip it. Save up for a good plane if you want to go that route.

[Slik Geek]

One caution about the solid cherry top: if the scraps came from different pieces of lumber, they may "age" differently. It may look really nice initially, but in a few years, one board may darken considerably more than the one next to it, significantly changing the appearance of your furniture. That may, or may not be an issue for you, but wanted you to be aware.

[atgcpaul]

If you can't get a glue-ready edge from your saw, get some practice with your
hand plane. That's what I do since I don't own a jointer. Go about half-way
down this page and he will explain jointing complementary edges with a hand
plane to achieve flat surfaces.

http://www.northwestwoodworking.com/.../article1.html

Paul

[drumpriest]

There is also the option of jointing the edges with a router. Over that size of distance it's VERY doable if you have a router table, or can reference off of a straight edge with a pattern or flush trim bit.

[Garasaki]

I'm doing similar operations with my BT3k on cherry, but I am not gluing them up into panels so perfectly square isn't a major concern. But I did want to add the follow advice on cherry burning:

Feed rate > make it as fast as you can.

I've done 2 batches of boards that I've edge jointed both sides on the BT3k. The first set I was a little timid in my operations and took my time pushing the boards thru. I got nice edges, but occasional (nothing terrible) burn marks. I was much more comfortable with my machine on the second set of boards, and pushed them thru at nearly breakneck speeds, and they are clean as a whistle...not a burn mark on them. I found that a feedrate that JUUUUUUUUUUUUUUST makes the motor start to bog was the sweetspot.

One thing that was suggested that can help you achieve a good feedrate, is using featherboards to hold the stock to the fence. Between these and a featherboard holding the stock flat against the saw's table top (I assume you do that, for saftey's sake), the only job that leaves you is pushing the stock thru. So you can concentrate soley on that.

[kwc]

There's some great advice in your responses -- thanks for all the recommendations!

A router will be my next "major" purchase and appears to be the best option for me to joint the edges. Until then, I'll try Tom's recommendation to clean up the edge with a half-kerf cut. As for minimizing the burning when cutting Cherry, I've been using a featherboard whenever possible, so I'll push the speed to eliminate the charring. (Thanks, Garasaki.)

The panel will all come from the same board, so concerns over color (and hopefully the thickness) should be alleviated. If the surface isn't perfectly flat, however, after gluing, I may need to get a hand plane to smooth it out. I guess I'll cross that bridge when I get to it.

Happy sawing,
kwc

[JimD]

kwc,

I normally glue using edges sawn on the BT3100 and I have a jointer. With good technique, a clean blade, and a rip fence properly set, it should be a piece of cake. I agree with the comments on feed rate but cherry burning is much more of an issue with the blade buried in the board. To clean up the edge for glueing, you want to take off less than the width of the blade from an edge. That has much less tendency to burn.

To flatten the top, I guess a plane would work, never tried it, but I use a belt sander. A random orbit sander would also work, just will take longer. Be careful to align the edges of the pieces as closely as you can and a tabletop should not be that bad. I use a Ryobi 3x21 which I recommend highly. I got mine rebuilt from Cummins for about $60. I've seen it new at HD for $99. If that is too much and you have a ROS and patience, that will work. You have to move a belt sander around and not let it set for too long in one spot. If you do that, it will do the job quickly and well. A ROS is more error proof.

Jim

[Tom Miller]

Be sure to wait several days to a week or more to flatten the top at the glue lines. Those areas will be swollen from the glue, so flattening too soon will result in a dip along those lines.

Taking care to keep the boards aligned for the glue-up will pay off later. Use cauls at the ends and in the middle.

Regards,
Tom

[kwc]

Well, I cut the board and cleaned up the edges using a half-kerf cut on the table saw. The edges fit together very nicely.

However: The boards are a little bit warped! When I lay the boards side-by-side, two of the three "rock" a little bit corner-to-corner. Yikes! It looks like surface planing or some serious sanding (belt or ROS) will be needed now to make the panel flat. The lumberyard planed rough-cut to S3S for me a week ago--so either they warped in the short storage period, or their planer didn't do an optimal job. Is this pretty common for most of you working with hardwood?

I suspect the best way to fix this is to run each through a surface planer. In the absence of that equipment, I may try gluing first, followed by sanding. Or is this simply wishful thinking?

[Tarheel]

.............However: The boards are a little bit warped! When I lay the boards side-by-side, two of the three "rock" a little bit corner-to-corner. Yikes! It looks like surface planing or some serious sanding (belt or ROS) will be needed now to make the panel flat. The lumberyard planed rough-cut to S3S for me a week ago--so either they warped in the short storage period, or their planer didn't do an optimal job. Is this pretty common for most of you working with hardwood?

I suspect the best way to fix this is to run each through a surface planer. In the absence of that equipment, I may try gluing first, followed by sanding. Or is this simply wishful thinking?

Have seen this happen a couple of times when I glued up red oak and cherry. the panel ended up cupping a little on me. I think that my issue was that I didn't let the boards "acclimatize".sp to my shop environment before the glueup. I just layed the panel on a flat service and placed a bucket of stone (for weight)for a couple of days and lo n' behold I got lucky and the panel flettened out for me ok.

Lesson learned. Before hitting the planer to flatten stock, I let the wood lay around my shop for about a week or so to let it get familiar with the new environment.

Works for me! (Don't get discouraged, the panel is salvagible for sure)

Wayne

[kwc]

Sounds like your panel warped after glue-up. In my case, they're warped beforehand, so I can't glue it without noticeable surface anomolies.

If you place weights on the boards to flatten them, won't they eventually assume their "natural" warped state again?

[ejstefl]

The problem to me sounds like the lumber yard didn't properly prepare the lumber. If you run a warped board through the planer, you will get a thinner warped board. In order to properly prepare rough stock, you need to start by face jointing the board to get a flat face. Then, you would edge joint the board, refrencing the flat edge against the fend, and you will have a flat edge that is 90 degrees to one face. After that, you can plane the board to thickness, and rip it to width.

Without a jointer, the only way that I'm aware of to get a flat face would be to use a hand plane, which takes some skill.

[kwc]

ejstefl, I think you are exactly right -- the lumber yard didn't prepare the board properly.

My problem appears to be solved now. I gave up on using the warped board and cut two sections out of a second (very flat) board I had purchased at the same time.

As it turns out, the Craftsman 21829 (BT3100 look-a-like) did an incredible job cleaning up the edges! The joints in the final glued up panel are perfect.

Thanks for all the tips.

Regards,
kwc