Sand first or assemble

[lcm1947]

On a simple coffee table would you sand each piece first or after it's assembled? I know I plan on finishing after assembly but not sure which would be the easiest on sanding it. What do you do?

[onedash]

It depends.
Last time I made raised panels I sanded everything first and wish I didnt. I should have only done the panels.
But the top of a coffee table would be ok to do first. Id wait on the legs until its assembled.
on my desk i started last night I spent some time working on the top this morning. Doing a little scraping to get the joints flush after I glued it to the plywood base. Mainly because I didnt have much time this morning.

This evening I got back on track and got the two outside pieces all cut jointed and planed. Still have work to do on the top though.

[SARGE..g-47]

Co-incidently, I just started to post a new thread after just coming up from the shop. Yeah... it's late here in Atlanta. The question was to finish before assembly or after?

I have always brushed on finish (poly anyway as this is a country kitchen table and needs protection for kitchen moisture) and find it easier to apply finish before assembly. Nooks and crannies are exposed and there are no intersections of different directions of grains meeting as legs meeting strechers.

But... I started using wiping poly recently and am wondering if with it's tendency not to run, if it would not be just as easy after assembly? That was the question I was going to ask.. how you guys approached it and why?

To answer your question, I still prefer to sand first (on most cases as there are exceptions) for the same reasons listed above. I find it a PITA to sand with the grain and end at say a strecher where it runs another direction. Even though I hand sand the last grit, it's still difficult to stop at a certain point and not leave a sanding mark on the grain of the intersecting piece..

So.... I sand first for the most part as I'm not faced with tight corners, etc..

Regards... and good nite to all as I'm pooped.. :>)

[niki]

Hi Mac

As all the others said...it depends...

It comes with experience after a few projects gluing that you say to yourself "Ah, why I did not sand it before"...

When I'm gluing a frame, usually I sand the inside edge that is more difficult to sand after assembly.
Same with carcass, I sand the all the inside area leaving the outside and the edges for "after gluing".

It does not mean that I don't have to sand later, after removing the glue from the corners, but it's much less work.

I know that some people are using masking tape to cover the areas of the glue squeeze-out, I don't do it so I cannot comment.

SARGE
You have a mistake in you post.
According to your posting time, it's not "Good Nite" but "Good Morning"
Anyway, Good Nite...

niki

[lcm1947]

Thanks guys and Niki you couldn't have stated it any other way for me to understand it any better. Of course some areas would be better before and others after. Only makes sense. I see I really need to plan ahead a lot better in a number of things when building and working with wood. Thanks. Boy, I love this woodworking. It sure is interesting and you learn so much - every single day!

[cabinetman]

I'm also in the "it depends group". I will try to do a major part of the sanding on those fitted areas that are difficult to do after glue up, if it doesn't change the fit of the pieces. Some of those areas will have to be cleaned up/sanded anyway after glue up due to excess glue.

I don't do the tape up of a glued piece and pre sand or finish, as it doesn't work out good for me. Either the finish bleeds under the tape, or the finish may be short of the glue up edge. I wouldn't want any part of the joint to have finish.
Some of those "into the corner" sanding circumstances just have to be endured, so just smile and pretend you're enjoying it.



A THING OF BEAUTY IS A JOY FOREVER - John Keats

[softop41]

Good Morning LCM1947,
I try to sand and finish 'in the flat' as much as I can. Granted some things just don't allow finishing 'in the flat', but I have come to love blue painters tape for keeping finish off places that will need glue to sitck later on. Yes, masking is time-consuming and occasionally a PITA but I have found the I am better satisfied with the overall project is I do it that way. I can never wipe poly into a corner as smoothly as I can wipe along flat surfaces that will meet, say the end of a shelf dadoed into the face of another piece. An added benefit is that after gluing, squeeze-out is much easier to clean up and won't stain the joint.
just my 2 cents worth
Jerry

[Ken Massingale]

I sand before assembly, and apply seal coat (if used on the project) also.
Then after assembly I sand again to make the joints nice and flush, which they should have been without having to sand the darn things!

On a side note, applying Zinnser seal coat after sanding (I usually do 2 coats since it drys in under an hour) when using wipe on finish saves applying a couple of coats of final finish. I get the same nice finish with 4 coats of finish on top of seal coat as 6-8 coats without the seal coat.
ken

[jackellis]

I'm going to shamelessly hijack this thread because it touches on something I've always been curious about.

Hard as I try, I rarely measure and cut as perfectly as I'd like (within, say, .008 or 1/128 inch) so that joints and glued-up faces aren't perfect, either. Can I assume perfection is *uncommon* and that everyone has to clean up joints and faces with a scraper or a sander or both?

[SARGE..g-47]

Afternoon Jack..

I don't think you have to assume that "perfection" is uncommon when working with wood. I think you can pretty much "take it to the bank". I have been fortunate enough over the years to attend seminars featuring Frid, Klaus, Kresnov, Maloof, Odate and other professionals and my opinion on that issue was formed by listening to theirs.

.008 or 1/128"? It's wood Jack, not metal and will compress with clamp pressure. The tolerances for a precision racing engine or NASA space capsule are not required with wood to make it right in the end result. That's why the "Wood God's" gave us shoulder planes, scrapers, paring chisels, etc., etc...

Just my opinion of course, but if I tried to attain those tolerances with wood, I would be still working out the kinks on my first project back in 1972. And would anyone notice that I was off by a "hair" after glue compression was accomplished? Me thinks not...

Regards...

[SARGE..g-47]

Afternoon all...

Regarding the making issue, I just got done doing it last night (correction: this morning as pointed out by Nike.. ha.. ha..). The joints have been cut.. mocked up with clamps and already sized and ready to go when finish rolls around.

Masking doesn't take that long once you get the feel of it and I find that any glue run-over is easier to clean with the finish already applied before assembly. If it's poly, you just wipe it off and no sanding required. And I have assured that the joint was tight and well fitted before I finished.

Here's last nights (early morining :>) ) results of masking. I threw my 4 table legs in a rotisserie jig I built in about 30 minutes from scrap to rotate the legs when wipe finish is applied. I can catch all four sides at once using the jig. The stretchers can be put between two supports resting on the tenons. The top side was left "proud" about 3/16" to be taken donw with a hand-plane after glue up. That top side will get a coat of poly then even though covered by the bottom of table too itself. I also entered a pci of the mock up and trial fit of joints before I got to this point.

And each of us has our preferences and reasoning as to what is the most efficient way. IMO, I doubt two will agree entirely on all aspects of the process.

Off to the shop to crank up my rotisserie and wipe some bar-be-que sauce on those legs and strechers. ha.. ha...

Regards...

[SARGE..g-47]

I lost post #11 in here somewhere.. it shows up when I go to reply, but is not up on the board. I think the attached pics didn't get on it, so I will re-post them as all may be Missing in Action! :>)

[Ed62]

.008 or 1/128"? It's wood Jack, not metal and will compress with clamp pressure.

That's what I like about framing. It's hard to go wrong.

Ed

[niki]

Hi SARGE

I noticed (also for me), that all the good ideas are coming late at night (or early morning )

Good idea you have there, I'll keep it for the next time painting.

Thanks for sharing
niki

[drumpriest]

I typically sand before assembly. If you are doing panel doors, finish the panel before assembly, as if you don't, and it shrinks some after the glue-up, you can see the unfinished portion.

Staining before the glue up can make the glue fail faster, and isn't recommended.

With a frame and panel, you often have to do some sanding regardless after the glue-up.