Stain Question

[Cain]

I just finished building my first project and I'm in the process of staining it. The kicker is that I want the finished product to be quite dark. I picked up some Minwax Gel Stain - Mahogany flavor - last weekend and started staining. So far I've put on three coats and it doesn't seem to be getting that dark. I'm following the directions by applying a coat to a small section, wiping off the excess after three coats, and waiting 8 to 10 hours to apply the next coat.

I put the first coat on in the unheated garage. The daily temps have been in the 50s and the nights in the 40s. The next coat hardly darkened the piece at all. I figured it had something to do with the temperature in the garage so I moved the piece inside the house were its comfortably warm. I applied the third coat in the house - it darkened the piece more than the second, but it still wasn't that noticeable.

I really don't want to have to put eight or ten coats on. Is there a preferred stain out there for dark stains? Can I switch to that stain after putting three coats of the gel stain on? Any other advice would be appreciated.

The wood I'm working with is red oak.

Thanks

[cabinetman]

Try Min-Wax regular oil base stain in a dark color, right on top. Test it in an inconspicuous place. You may also try an aniline dye in alcohol base and mix on the strong side. If the oil stain doesn't take you may have to wipe off the existing stain with lacquer thinner as much as you can. Do it in a well ventilated area. If none of the previous works to your satisfaction you may have to resort to stripping.



A THING OF BEAUTY IS A JOY FOREVER - John Keats

[Slik Geek]

It could be because you chose a gel stain. They tend to resist absorption (because they have a thickening agent).

Another possible contributor to your disappointing results is that gel stains usually only contain pigment, and not dye. Pigment stains tend to darken the pores of oak, but leave the rest only mildly "stained".

I'd recommend finding a stain (non-gel) that is mostly dye-based. I'm just not sure if the pigment residue will inhibit absorption of the dye.

Unfortunately, the stain manufacturers don't usually reveal what type of coloring agent is used. You can tell by opening a can that has been undisturbed for some time. The pigment settles to the bottom. Insert a wood stick to the bottom and see if you can pull up some pigment. If you pull up pigment (gunk on the bottom) and the stick above the gunk is uncolored, the stain is pure pigment. If there is no gunk on the bottom, and the stick is colored, the stain is pure dye. If it is a combination of the two, it has both.

[onedash]

I have an oak bedroom set that is very dark and I love it. I am unable to get oak to come anywhere near that appearance though. I swore off oak because I didnt like working with it and hate finishing it even more.
If you have lyptus available give that a try next time. Its very easy to finish and looks great. At the Norfolk Woodcraft its about $1 a bf more than oak ($5.04 I think for 4/4). I have used that more than any other wood and although its much harder than oak which i like since I have made several table with it it cuts good glues up great finishes great but takes a little while longer to sand than most other wood I have used.

[Slik Geek]

I have an oak bedroom set that is very dark and I love it. I am unable to get oak to come anywhere near that appearance though. I swore off oak because I didnt like working with it and hate finishing it even more.

I recently stained a red oak piece with Minwax stain (Dark Walnut 2716). I procastinated for a very long time (just ask LOL) before I stained it because I feared that I would have unsatisfactory results.

I bought Bob Flexner's "Understanding Wood Finishing" book because of the glowing reviews that I had seen, hoping that it would get me off dead center. Based upon the knowledge I gained from his book, I decided I needed a stain that was primarily dye-based. I chose the stain mentioned above . It has some pigment, but appears to be predominantly dye.

One application of stain and the piece is gosh darn close to the color shown on the web site: http://www.minwax.com/products/woods...nish-color.cfm.

The pigment in the stain highlighted the grain patterns nicely, and the dye colored the remaining wood reasonably dark. IIRC, I allowed five minutes before wiping off the stain.

Perhaps the contributors of this site can collaborate on creating a collection of the types of stains that are offered by opening cans they have on hand and reporting the dye/pigment makeup. With all the contributors, we could quickly generate a comprehensive reference to assist stain selection. (I know that I could use more information on the stains!)

[Cain]

Thanks for the info, guys. I plan on trying out the Minwax stain that Slik Geek mentioned. I read the directions and it doesn't say anything about temperature except that the drying time will be longer. So, I'll probably move the project back out to the garage so that I don't gas the family with fumes.