Raised panel problem

[jgrobler]

Hi All,

In the summer I made a lot of raised panel doors, now in my kitchen. I did let the wood acclimate for about 6 weeks before I started using it. I also used space balls for the gaps to keep the panel floating in the middle.

Lately it's been betting a bit wetter, and it seems the 1/4" gap I left between the frame and the panel (1/8" each side) was too little. Several of the doors are starting to bulge in the middle of the frames, and 1 of the doors starting getting loose at a rail/stile joint.

Am I all out of luck? Only thing I can think of is to carefully remove a stile, (brute force, maybe a wood block & hammer, then clean the rail ends again) and trim the panel another 3/16" to 1/4" and reassemble.

I would really appreciate some advice from y'all.

Johan

[cabinetman]

If you allowed the same gap on all the panels, the problem may be that the panel is crowning on its own. In other words it may not be expanding in its width, just bending. Usually, if the movement is that drastic a glue joint won't hold the movement, the wood will separate around the joint if the joint was good. Another possibility is that the panel is actually too far to one side (not spaced), so the movement might be in one direction. Wood doesn't have a degree of predictability. You could use a Jorgensen clamp on the panel to hold the panel, and then use a block of wood against either the rail or stile (whichever way you want to move the panel) and tap with mallet. If you separate a joint just to get the panel out to cut it down, when the humidity lowers, the panel may be too small. I've never used anything to align a panel in the frame. I just let it do what it does. It should not be that tight. If you pinned the panel, that might also be a problem. Acclimating the wood was a good step, but remember that your machining and finishing of that wood changes its stress and moisture characterictics.



"I'M NEVER WRONG - BUT I'M NOT ALWAYS RIGHT"

[onedash]

What kind of wood is it and how is it finished?

[jgrobler]

Thanks Cabinetman for the suggestions. I am a little afraid that cutting the panel may make it too small when the wood srinks again.

What do you mean with "pinned the panel"?

Onedash - I used Ash, and finished with Minwax Polycrylic.

[cabinetman]

"Pinning the panel" is positioning the panel in the frame with equal spacing into the groove and setting the panel with brads in the middle at the top and the bottom, to hold its spacing but allowing it to move laterally.



"I'M NEVER WRONG - BUT I'M NOT ALWAYS RIGHT"

[jgrobler]

Thanks for the explanation. No, I did not pin the panel, I used spaceballs.

I don't know if I explained the problem adequately. Here's a photo that may help. See how, in the middle, the 2 diirs are touching, but the top and bottom they're apart, just about a 1/16, maybe 3/32, but still.

And the second pic shows the frame that is starting to loosen, the left bottom door.

[lkazista]

NO suggestions for your issues, but those photos look fantastic.

Good luck finding a solution.

Lee

[cabinetman]

Thanks for the explanation. No, I did not pin the panel, I used spaceballs.

I don't know if I explained the problem adequately. Here's a photo that may help. See how, in the middle, the 2 diirs are touching, but the top and bottom they're apart, just about a 1/16, maybe 3/32, but still.

And the second pic shows the frame that is starting to loosen, the left bottom door.

First, if all the doors in the pictures are mounted, you could use more space in the middle. The closer you space doors, the more obvious slight imperfections look. It would be a stroke of luck to have absolute perfection. Some of mother nature we have to live with. The gap (separation) looks negligable. You could put a straightedge on each of the doors and see which one is out, and how much. Check to see if the panel is jammed or caught to keep it from moving in the groove. If the panel is loose, see if a clamp will pull the stile in. If it moves freely without moving the panel, it could be just the stile having a slight bow. It could be those spaceballs hanging you up.

As for the joint that looks like it's coming apart, also check the panel to see if it's free in the groove. See if the joint can be closed up. If the panel is loose, you may just have a glue starved joint. Remove door and force some TBII into the joint, pad it in, clamp joint closed, and damp wipe wet squeezed glue off.



"I'M NEVER WRONG - BUT I'M NOT ALWAYS RIGHT"

[Jeffrey Schronce]

I agree with Cabinetman 100%. Your doors are likely a shade to close together and are magnifying that slight imperfection. I believe that issue is related to rail and stile movement (the wood) versus panel movement.

I believe the rail/stile seperation could be due to the spaceballs. After milling my raised panels using a raised panel bit in the router, I will trim approx 1/16" off each side of the panel. Otherwise it takes more clamping pressure than I like to get the rails and stiles to interlock. While I really like the space balls they do take up a bit of room inside the groove.

[jgrobler]

Thanks again for the suggestions. The doors are mounted, but with clip-on hinges, so easy to take off and adjust.

You say it looks negligable, and LOML has not said anything yet, maybe I'm just too finicky, but I'm going to try and pull the stiles in with clamps, like you suggest.

Thanks for the compliment Lee, I haven't posted pics of the kitchen, as I still have a lot of small things to fix, and the crown molding and floor to do. And to think I thought I would be finished by Christmas...

[jziegler]

I think it looks great too. Can't really help you on your problems, but wanted to say that.

Also, we tend to be our own worst critics. I see problems in my kitchen that my wife will never notice. I built a curio cabinte for my mother in law that took a long time to build because the plan was terrible. I'm not terribly happy with how it came out, lots of flaws that I see, but she loves it. So try for the gap and see how you like it.

Jim