At a very interesting juncture: How should I charge?

[ChrisD]

Neighbors who saw the bath vanity that I recently completed now want me to make them a built-in bookcase. I think I can do it, but I have no clue how to come up with a labor cost, and I know there are a lot to consider: mine, the machines', the power company's, etc. This would be my first paid work.

I'll probably charge the materials up front and show them every receipt. If they weren't my neighbors, I'd be more comfortable charging a flat fee.

I guess my goal is simply to make enough from this project to feel that it's worth losing personal shop time. I know it sounds very subjective but I'm sure those of you who have done this can relate to it. Of course, a good bonus would be to open the door to potential future projects.

Your advice is greatly appreciated!

A note to the pros: I'd really like to hear what your thought process was when you were starting out. Your current cost model may not apply to my situation.

Thanks again.

[RayintheUK]

I'll probably charge the materials up front and show them every receipt. If they weren't my neighbors, I'd be more comfortable charging a flat fee.

There would be no "probably" in that statement from me - always get the materials costs up front where you can, definitely for a first project. You're doing something for them, so why should you be out of pocket from the start? Also, very few people have any idea of what good-quality stock costs - this eye-opener can pay dividends in the future, especially as the "word-of-mouth" chain kicks into action and you get inundated with requests. Hopefully, subsequent requests will have a realistic eye on material costs.

Bookcases are fairly simple to construct, but build-ins can often be a little more complex, depending mostly on how square the recess is and whether any scribing, etc. is involved.

Will there be sides and a back, or is the recess going to perform those functions? Once you've worked out a materials list, allow about 15% extra to account for checks, knots, etc., then double it for a rough guide price. Now think what you could expect to pay for a stand-alone bookcase that fitted the space. If that is more, bring your price up to around halfway between the two. If it's less, leave it where it is. If you're too expensive, they can get a stand-alone model.

I never try to compete with the large retailers. Why should I? - I don't have their economy-of-scale purchasing power. They want you to do it because they've already seen your work. The advantage, right there, is that you don't need to even discuss deadlines - it'll be ready when it is. The downside is that it'll have to be at least as good as what they've seen and as it's a larger piece, that means even more finishing time.

Your current cost model may not apply to my situation.

And there, exactly, is the problem. We've all got different reasons for doing what we do. Some are hobbyists, creatively filling time - money not important if costs are covered. Some are "learning" by doing larger projects for others, as practice for the future. Some make a living (full-time or part-time) from it, but they have experience and production choices on their side.

Good luck - let us know how you get on, with pics of course!

Ray.

[JR]

We had dinner with friends last night who are doing a lot of work with leaded glass. We roughed out an exchange. They need some doors and I need some glass panels. We'll each pay for the materials we need from the other party and do the work for free.

Does your neighbor have a skill you could use? Maybe plumbing or drywall? Concrete?

Just a thought.

JR

[jackellis]

Once you've worked out a materials list, allow about 15% extra to account for checks, knots, etc., then double it for a rough guide price. Now think what you could expect to pay for a stand-alone bookcase that fitted the space. If that is more, bring your price up to around halfway between the two. If it's less, leave it where it is. If you're too expensive, they can get a stand-alone model.

Ask for a higher multiple on the materials price, like 3x, to cover your labor and overheads. If they really want it and you're doing this only reluctantly, the value of your time is pretty high. On top of that, you're going to have to replace consumables that you cannot easily quantify.

[ChrisD]

Great input, Ray. The bookcase will take the place of a banister on the second floor landing; the back will be seen from the stairs. One side -- the "built-in" piece -- will fit into an angled alcove. The buy option is definitely out due to these specific requirements so there's really no off-the-shelf comparison to be made. The competition is with the big shops (which I honestly don't think they would go with) or another Joe Woodworker. But I think the (material + 15%) x 2 formula is fair.

JR, my neighbor is a patent lawyer, so I'm not sure a barter is a likely option.

[wardprobst]

Great input, Ray. The bookcase will take the place of a banister on the second floor landing; the back will be seen from the stairs. One side -- the "built-in" piece -- will fit into an angled alcove. The buy option is definitely out due to these specific requirements so there's really no off-the-shelf comparison to be made. The competition is with the big shops (which I honestly don't think they would go with) or another Joe Woodworker. But I think the (material + 15%) x 2 formula is fair.

JR, my neighbor is a patent lawyer, so I'm not sure a barter is a likely option.

When I worked in a custom furniture shop in Houston 30 years ago we figured it two different ways- materials + 10% (for glue, fasteners, etc.) times four. Or we would figure materials cost + 10%, hourly costs of folks involved (cabinetmaker, finisher, etc) then mark that up. It usually worked out about the same on tables and things we did often but on one of a kind custom work we always went the second route because it took so much longer to set up for the work.
Hope this helps,
DP

[ChrisD]

DP, Jack: Thanks. It sounds like using the material cost as the base is the way to go. Now I just need to come up with a factor that everybody will be happy with. It will be interesting to see how close to (or far from) my current bill rate at work I will actually get!