Shellac and foam brush

[DaveW]

The one time I used shellac, I used a rag and wiped it on. While I liked the result, I couldn't help but think - a lot of the shellac just gets soaked up into the rag - so I thought - the next time around, I'll use a foam brush.

Over the weekend, I was flipping through some old FWW magazines, and came across an article where they were promoting foam brushes for finishing, and had a bunch of tips (such as using one side of the brush for dipping and the other side for applying etc). In that article, they suggested that you shouldn't use foam brushes for shellac since it may dissolve the foam. Does that really happen?

(Of course, as I started doing research into it, I came across this page, where they mentioned "Use a good quality natural- or synthetic-bristle brush, or a foam brush, and brush in long strokes"...)

Any thoughts based on real world experience?

[Ken Massingale]

I only wipe on shellac now, but did try a foam brush once. The foam didn't dissolve because it didn't have time to. Soon into the application the alcohol dissolved the glue holding the foam to the handle and the foam came off in mid stroke. Haven't done that since, wiping is good enough for me. I use small pieces of cloth so not much is lost in the rag.
ken

[jnesmith]

I've always heard that shellac (more specifically the alcohol in it) will dissolve foam brushes.

I spray it with one of these and am very happy with the results.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Shellac will absolutely cause a foam brush to dissolve and leave nice little black flakes in your finish. It typically will not happen with the first application rather it will in the subsequent applications. Most folks will use the foam brush, wrap it tightly in a plastic bag or zip lock bag to prevent the shellac from curing in the brush. I believe that is when the break down process begins as the subsequent coats are where I have noticed the problem.
I actually ran into the problem last night. I accidentally used a 2# cut that contained wax for a sanding sealer. Realizing this before applying the poly I decided to stick with shellac as the finish. I was using "clear" pre-mixed off the shelf 3# cut, cut down to 2# on the maple. I was using garnet flacke shellac 2# on the mahog. I forgot about the dissentigrating foam problem and continued using the brush and at build 3 both brushes began flaking off black foam. I took a clean cotten rag and applied alchol and got the flakes out.
I find that 2# cut, maybe even a little thinner, is great for wiping. I take a rag and ball it up, then wrap a clean cotton rag around the ball and put a rubber band on the top to hold it together. I get much less drips and runs, which is a problem for me using traditional brushes. I find the finish is too thin to use a traditional brush, however this could be due to the fact that I refuse to pay $50+ for a good shellac brush. Wipe on works GREAT for me.
I believe you could get good application control and reduce waste by using a condiment bottle so you could just squirt a small amount onto the pad, versus dipping into a container. I have not done this as I figure that any waste is mostly cheap denatured alchol anyway. Got to be careful though as I hear that shellac can affect some plastics. I have never had a problem, but I have heard this.

[gerti]

According to our local finishing guru Kevin: buy a good quality natural bristle brush set aside for shellac use only. After use, no cleanup is required, just wrap it into some paper (or original packaging if suitable) to keep it shaped properly. It is OK to have the shellac dry on it, as the next time you'll use it the alcohol in the shellac will soften it again. He (professional finisher) uses the same brush for very long times.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

According to our local finishing guru Kevin: buy a good quality natural bristle brush set aside for shellac use only. After use, no cleanup is required, just wrap it into some paper (or original packaging if suitable) to keep it shaped properly. It is OK to have the shellac dry on it, as the next time you'll use it the alcohol in the shellac will soften it again. He (professional finisher) uses the same brush for very long times.

My background . . . 4 years ago I began restoring antiques for profit. I average 2 pieces per month. It works for me as I love sanding and finishing (pretty sick huh?). When I moved to PA I found some very knowledgable and well published folks who taught me the whole world about shellac. I lived within walking distance to the shop and learned a bunch from those folks. I will dig up some links tommorow but the shop is called Olde Mill Cabinet shop. They teach classes for those who actually want to pay, versus people like me who just barge in and bug them all the time. Now I am trying to work my way into a Windsor chair shop a couple miles from my house . . . . LOL.
I humbly disagree with his take on brush choice. Golden nylon brushes sold in art supply stores for water colors has many advantages. A good 2" brush will run around $50. Like I said in the prior post, proper brushing viscosity is going to be a #1 - #2 cut, which is pratically = to water. The nylon bristles are highly resistive to chemical reaction of the alcohol. A good nylon brush will last for many, many years if properly cared for. Natural bristle brushes are of course a product of an animal. This product does not hold up to repeated exposure to alcohol. Proteins don't hold up well to solvents.
Some folks advocate Sable Tail brushes for shellac. They still do not hold up well to alcohol, but do apparently get great results. My understanding is that they start at $100 (we're talking about a 1" brush here folks). I have never used one and never will (unless they end up in bargin alerts for $20!!!).
As far as cleaning, you will want to clean your brush decently but not completely. I would not recommend allowing the brush to dry with a full coarse of shellac. 1st it would take quite some time to dissolve the shellac again and 2nd I think it would damage the brush over time. Generally folks use alcohol to get about 90% of the shellac out. You do leave a little in there to set the shape of the brush.

[DaveW]

Thanks for all the feedback - I guess I'll put the foam brushes away! And given that I'm not buying a brush (I am very guilty of not cleaning them), I guess it's back to a rag for me!

[brooks]

Buy chip brushes, less than a quarter each in packs of 24 at Harborfreight. Horse hair. Pig hair. Several types around. Not all foam is equal either but th echeaper foam brushes are usually junk and disintegrate in almost anything. If you need foam, visit a carpet store and get a bunch of padding. Scissors can cut it into the size you need. It will last long enough.

Don't believe for ONE MINUTE that snooty artsy brushes cost that much more to make. The pricing is just a reaction to the demographics of the target buyer pool, IMHO.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

Agreed on pricing, that's why I wipe! LOL!
My foam brushes are Woster, so my guess is they are on the top end of the spectrum for foam brushes. I don't know about carpet padding.

I would guess that it is not real cheap if you are doing a lot of shellacing, but there are vendors who sell clear and amber in spray cans, so that is another option.

As far as wiping and your concern of material loss, you can keep the pad for many uses by simply putting it into a zip lock bag with all the air forced out. Keeps for months so you don't have to worry about loosing an ounce of finish everytime you start a new project.

[DaveW]

Buy chip brushes, less than a quarter each in packs of 24 at Harborfreight. Horse hair. Pig hair. Several types around.

Does that really work for you? Everytime I've tried the bulk packs of cheap brushes, I've been frustrated with all the hairs that end up on my project!

[Brian G]

I have that problem, too. It's especially bad with the cheapie acid brushes for slathering glue. I'm conditioned to giving them a good smashing with a hammer to crimp the bristles in tighter. Sometimes it works.

Shellac and a foam brush. . . two bits.

[wassaw998]

Foam brushes def fall appart.

I would not recommend the HF chip brushes - I have a few boxes of them, bought specifically for shellac as I love the ease of shellac. These HF brushes are junk - horrid on application (don't seem to want to hold any shellac), and tons of "hairs" falling off. I'd rather use an old dead racoon laying on the road. My Q to Jeffrey is since shellac takes quite a few coats, using the balled rag in a rag method, do you have to toss out the rags each time between coats ? My issue with rags and varnishes/shellacs is that I am tossing out so many of them between coats.

I had bought a natural bristle brush (think at HD, labeled for shellac) and was not happy with what happened between coats, basically the brush turned into a rock. Not sure how long you are supposed to soak it in shellac for the next application, but, seemed to want to take forever to me. Thus, I am not a big believer in the "you don't have to clean your brushes" philosphy although definitely have read the pros who say that.

[Jeffrey Schronce]

[QUOTE=wassaw998]
My Q to Jeffrey is since shellac takes quite a few coats, using the balled rag in a rag method, do you have to toss out the rags each time between coats ? My issue with rags and varnishes/shellacs is that I am tossing out so many of them between coats.
QUOTE]

All you have to do is put the rag/pad/brush in an relatively air tight bag. I currently have my shellac pad in a plastic grocery bag which is not very air tight. Zip lock bag would work better. If you get all the air out you can save it for months. Better kept in cool place verus hot as heat speeds up evaporation. If the rag/brush starts getting hard just apply thin shellac or straight denatured alchol to the rag/brush to bring it back to life.

[mdutch]

I spray it with one of these and am very happy with the results.

ooohhh. Where does he get all these wonderful toys?

I'm actually in the market for a small finishing sprayer like that. Can you provide a link? (Couldn't back-search it at HF).

[Jeffrey Schronce]

I couldn't find the old style either however searching HVLP resulted in these :

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=91772

http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/...bCategoryName=

Has anyone used the 91772 model for $49.99?