French cleats??

[rcp612]

LOML wants a garden bench on an inside corner on the outside of our house. But,,,,, no legs. Will a french cleat with diagonally installed "legs" support it? Or does anyone have any ideas? The bench would be about 5' one way and 4' the other. (At a 90 deg.) Oh, it will probably be redwood or teak.
Thanks in advance.

[mschrank]

I think your idea would provide plenty of support...but why the french cleat? One would usually use a french cleat so that the hanging object could be moved from side to side or removed altogether. Why not just secure the rear side of the seat to a regular cleat attached to the exterior wall?

[rcp612]

I think your idea would provide plenty of support...but why the french cleat? One would usually use a french cleat so that the hanging object could be moved from side to side or removed altogether. Why not just secure the rear side of the seat to a regular cleat attached to the exterior wall?

I was thinking ahead about possibly having to remove it for one thing or another(LOML is a cleaning freak). But I quess my real concern is that nothing would actually support the front. Not very well anyway,IMO. Pressure from sitting on it would transfer to the bottom rear cleat but, wouldn't that place a lot of outward pressure on the top cleat?

[jackellis]

I was thinking ahead about possibly having to remove it for one thing or another(LOML is a cleaning freak). But I quess my real concern is that nothing would actually support the front. Not very well anyway,IMO. Pressure from sitting on it would transfer to the bottom rear cleat but, wouldn't that place a lot of outward pressure on the top cleat?

If the bottom rear of the seat is touching the wall, the scenario you describe is unlikely. The only time you should have to worry about a force being applied to the top cleat in a direction that is perpendicular to the wall is if the bottom rear of the seat is not flush against the wall.

[RayintheUK]

I'm a big fan of French cleats for hanging wall cabinets and regularly use a double row to hang large units. The cabinets often become very heavy when loaded, but because of their limited depth, most of the load is in the shape of downforce, with a relatively small outward force applied to the upper cleat. On inside corner units, the "twisting" effect is further reduced by the longtitudinal support gained from the cleat(s) at right angles to each other. However, this applies to wall cabinets - I'd be a lot more careful in fixing a bench, for the following reasons:

1)

The only time you should have to worry about a force being applied to the top cleat in a direction that is perpendicular to the wall is if the bottom rear of the seat is not flush against the wall.

Sorry, Jack, I'm going to have to disagree with you here. The depth of the bench seat will multiply the forces on the top cleat proportional to not only the weight of the person(s) sitting, but how far forward they sit and whether their legs are taking some of the weight. If their feet are off the ground totally, there is potential for some serious loading to be applied.

2) Benches are not at all comfortable if they are right-angled - the back needs to slope for comfort. Usually, this means an angled back leg, but in the proposed configuration, this is not possible. The alternative is to keep the structure right-angular, with an inserted angled back fitted afterwards - more load, more difficulty, occupants sitting further forward, thus increasing the outward load.

3) The size of the proposed bench means that it would be capable of taking four or five adults and up to eight children. When people see a seat, they don't consider loads, fulcrum effect, whatever, they sit on it with confidence, jump up and down on it (children, mostly!) and generally abuse it. I'd worry about injury from a sudden detatchment that such a load could cause.

Because French cleats have the upward-facing part affixed to the wall, in an outside location they could collect water. Even pressure-treated lumber would need additional measures on the exposed 45-degree face, to inhibit the possibility of rot over time.

If I had to wall-hang a bench, I'd use metal brackets similar to those you store ladders on, but made especially for the job. I'd make absolutely certain that I'd got a bomb-proof fixing into suitable load-carrying studwork and I'd load it with bags of sand or earth before I'd let anyone near it. How many commercially-available, wall-hung benches have you seen? If it was a good idea, there'd be quite a few, wouldn't there?

All-in-all, I think that it's way too much work just so there aren't any legs, but - if that's what is wanted - I'd be certain to over-engineer it, as the potential for collapse and subsequent injury is fairly high.

This reply assumes that the bench will be purpose-built. I definitely wouldn't try to hang a bench made to sit on the ground from a wall - the joinery would not be intended or designed to take the potential loads already described.

Didn't want to rain on your parade, but I have real concerns about this, as you may have guessed by now.

Ray.

[RickCarpenter]

Hang it with chains from the rafters with locating cleats on each wall to keep it from swinging. If the cleats just gotta be French cleats, angle them for water runoff.

Rick

[jackellis]

Ray, on further reflection I'm inclined to agree with you that a) hanging the bench as described is a bad idea for the reasons you cite, and b) I was wrong about whether there would be any force perpendicular to the wall. Something that's bolted to the wall would clearly be much safer. Something with legs is by far the easiest and the best.