Need education on hinges

[Pappy]

Finally working on the casbinets for the Master Bath. I have never used the euro-style concealed hinges and terminology is confusing. Some will be face frame and some edge/frameless mount. That I can comprehend...read the package!

What I don't understand is the overlay. Some are listed in inches (1/2, 5/8, 3/4...), others just say half or full overlay.

Can someone point me to an online source that has an explanation for dummies?

[RayintheUK]

Try this Don. Scroll down to see (from the left) full overlay, half overlay and inset.

Briefly, full overlay is where the door covers the full thickness of the cabinet side, half overlay is where, for example, two hinges are mounted on each side of a central divider, so each door covers half the thickness and inset means that the door is completely within the cabinet sides.

Here's a quick drawing of closed doors which may help (click on it for a clearer view). The Blue, orange and red show the increasing crank to perform the required overlay.



Usually, the hinge crank figure tells the story: "0" crank is full overlay, "8 degrees" is half overlay and "15 degrees" is inset. HTH

Ray.

[Stan]

What is even more fun, is figuring out exactly what you need -- only to find out that there ain't a store in the area that has that configuation and there will be a delay while getting them ordered.

Just to expand a bit on Ray's explanation (which appears to be for frameless cabinets only), the definition of 1/4, 5/8, 3/4 relates to face frame cabinets and how much you want the cabinet door or 'overlay' the face frame. In my case, I am using 1-3/4" wide face frames and want to have 1/2" reveal between opposing doors. In order to get that arrangement, the cabinet doors will have to overlay the face frame 1-1/2" on each cabinet (leaving a 1/4" reveal on each cabinet). Thus I'll need FF, 1-1/2" overlay Euro hinges.

Hope that helps.

[Pappy]

Thanks for the responses. The file from Blum has a lot of info (56 pages). Gonna take a while to digest it. Scanning thru it, everything seems to deal with framless cabinets.

[drumpriest]

Pappy, I cheat, I use the variable overlay hinges that can clip off. You can make quite a few mistakes in the installation and still get everything lined up nice. Plus you can clip the doors on and off for cleaning out your cabinet, or for playing with plumbing.

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?p...1&cookietest=1

[RayintheUK]

Thanks for the responses. The file from Blum has a lot of info (56 pages). Gonna take a while to digest it. Scanning thru it, everything seems to deal with framless cabinets.

They also deal with face frame hinges, but I prefer to use Hafele products. There's a page about their face frame hinges here and their whole catalogue is available here

HTH

Ray.

[vaking]

Ray,
Please clarify something for me. I understand the sections about full overlay and inset doors. When it comes to half overlay I thought that it normally means that the door is partially inset and partially overlaying the cabinet body. American hinge manufacturers usually describe it as half wrap. In other words there is a rebate cut in the door and the rebate section fits inside and full size stays out. For instance, 3/4" door half wrap will have 3/8" inset and 3/8" overlay.
I also suggest found this site sort-of informative:
http://www.knottyplans.com/index.php?page=200429

[RayintheUK]

Ray,
Please clarify something for me. I understand the sections about full overlay and inset doors. When it comes to half overlay I thought that it normally means that the door is partially inset and partially overlaying the cabinet body. American hinge manufacturers usually describe it as half wrap. In other words there is a rebate cut in the door and the rebate section fits inside and full size stays out. For instance, 3/4" door half wrap will have 3/8" inset and 3/8" overlay.
I also suggest found this site sort-of informative:
http://www.knottyplans.com/index.php?page=200429

Over here, the vast majority of cabinets are frameless and my response was regarding frameless cabinets. Half-overlay frameless hinges are only used when two doors are fitted one each side of a central divider, or the doors are deliberately cut narrower and shorter to reveal some of the cabinet itself (a more "industrial" look). What you describe as a "half wrap" we would refer to as a "rebated door."

Good link, BTW!

Ray.

[JimD]

Alex,

I prefer to only use inset for doors that are inside the cabinet. In my terminology, you cannot have 3/8 inset and 3/8 overlay.

I used to think that full overlay meant 3/4 inch overlay. Then I found the charts that tell what the real overlay is and it is in metric but is not 3/4 inch (typically tops out a 16-18mm). Half overlay is thus also not normally 3/8 inch. One of the drawbacks of these hinges is you have to work in metric.

The other thing I will add is that the overlay is typically a function of the base which is sold by some suppliers separately. You can thus change a 1/2 overlay to a full overlay by changing the base - which is literally a 50 cent piece in many instances. This is nice when you don't have what you thought you would have. There are also special bases to mount to face frames - my kitchen cabinets have blum hinges mounted to the face frame. If you order from what I have found to be the cheapest and most informed suppliers, you have to order the parts separately but then you get what you want instead of something that seems to be what you want. I typically order from Woodworkers Warehouse whose catalog explains things pretty well (it is around 300 pages).

Jim

[JeremyM]

Ummm Jim,

Are they in business or not? I tried looking them up and I'm not sure whether they are back in shape or not.

[JimD]

Jeremy,

They are still around but not at the name I gave you. The correct address is woodworkershardware.com. 392 pages. Blum European hinges from page 85 to 101.

Jim

[Pappy]

Still not completely sure of the half/full overlay terms, but the hinges with the overlay in fractions are as simple as I thought they would be. 1/2" overlay means the hinge edge of the door will cover (overlay) the face frame by 1/2"...DUH!

This was what I thought, but wasn't positive, and couldn't find a simple explanation on the web. Had to look at different hinges before it finally hit me.

Thanks for all the help. Now to do a mock-up of MDF to practice the first installation.