Replacing floor at entire floor level

[vaking]

I know many people had some work done with floors and I want to tap into the collective wisdom.
My house was built in 1927. Floor is oak hardwood but different technology from what is used today. Floor planks are about 2" wide, no tongue and grove. Original floor was 3/8" thick, by now it is about 5/16". Nailed from the top to a wooden subfloor. No tongue and grove means seams are not tight, I sometimes can see lights thru this floor. I want to replace it with normal 3/4" floor, the entire first floor, somewhere around 1000 sf.

I noticed that most floors sold today are prefinished. When I talk to professionals - they seem to have more respect for floors finished in place.
I can understand the obvious advantages of prefinished: you don't need to finish in place, so installation is faster and without ugly chemicals and sanding. Also - factory finish is probably harder and more durable than homemade.
I can also guess the disadvantages:
seams are not sealed, so floor is less resistant to moisture.
Requires more accuracy during installation, there is no sanding to assure level floors. God forbid you scratch a surface.
What did you use and what was your experience?
I know my wife would prefer floors sealed in place but I estimate that finishing the floor will probably take a couple weeks and clearing out entire first floor and not using it for that long makes me scared. Generally - replacing 1000 sf of floors sounds like a big project, I don't know if I have enough energy and appetite for a DIY.
Thanks,

[atgcpaul]

My dad refinished the floor of our house in the mid-80s. Did the whole floor sander and sealer thing. It took days to sand, etc and the house stunk for weeks. Probably these days you'd use a waterborne finish, but as you said, you couldn't use that area for a while whereas a pre-finished floor is ready to go right away.

I would also think that factory finished floors would have pretty tight QA/QC for floor thickness meaning you shouldn't have to worry too much about varying thickness if you can buy it from one batch. A lot of prefinished floors these days also have a chamfer on their edges. Dirt can collect in that extra chamfer but then it's virtually impossible to tell height differences.

My largest real wood floor install I did was just 100sqft of bamboo (ok, not wood) flooring.. The finish has held up great, went down pretty quickly, and the room was ready that night. I wasn't exhausted afterwards but there is no way I would want to do all that work installing the floor AND then have to apply a finish to it especially knowing I couldn't do a job as good as the factory.

The only way I'd do my own finishing is if I absolutely did not like the color choices.

[vaking]

I have refinished floors in couple bedrooms on the second floor. Same kind of floor but in better shape - there is less traffic in bedrooms than on the first floor. I rented a huge sander and stripped floor in one day. Then applied sealer (shellac) and 4 layers of finish. Both sealer and finish were specially formulated for floors water based. Five layers took over a week. The smell was tolerable and I can afford not to walk for a week in couple bedrooms, but entire first floor is much worse.

[JimD]

My wife and I just refinished a few hundred square feet on our new house (which is 48 years old). The old finish was not worn completely through so we just lightly sanded with 220 and put down three more coats. It will be durable but will not pass a close inspection. We put the last coat down in the morning in poor light and the finish is not completely even. She is OK with it but I wish I'd done better. My sander broke so we had to put it down within 12 hours of the last coat and it didn't end up the best.

I also put about 700 square feet of pre-finished oak in a house we just sold. That was a good sized job but went pretty well. Of the two, I would rather do this again. If I put down unfinished, I plan to hire somebody to finish it next time. And I would not use water borne. I've done that too but it isn not as durable and I don't think it looks as good on oak. Solvent based is stinky and needs more drying time which is inconsistent with use on a house you are living in.

To install pre-finished I would get a stapler or nailer. They cost less than $100 and could be sold when you're done. Then you can do it nights and weekends when you have time.

Only the top surface will be finished regardless of how you do it unless you prefinish the bottom and edges during installation. A flood coat may get a little in the cracks between boards but it does not result in a continuous finish like it would if the boards were glued together. The prefinished will have a radius or chamfer at the edge of each board to hide minor elevation differences. I don't mind that and neither does my wife. I do not see any functional difference between the two and pre-finished is less hassle.

For installation you need a miter saw, a compressor, and a nailer. A vibrating saw is nice when you have to tuck the flooring under door jambs and trim. They cost a lot less than a jamb saw and work well (mine is from HF which is a reasonable place to get a nailer/stapler).

[Stytooner]

With the technology of today's flooring available, there is no way I would do raw flooring again unless it was a historical restoration. I have reclaimed oak flooring in my house that I installed. Both upper and lower levels need work after about 15 years of use. I just cannot find a break in time to do that sanding and refinishing needed. Someone is always here.

The plan is to go right over the top with a new floating floor.
They are cheap and easy enough.
The other thing about prefinished flooring is that you can do it one bite at a time. No need to have the entire floor blocked off.
Do a single room a day start to finish. No smell, no fuss, not a lot of cussing. Nothing blocked off.
Then move that rooms furniture back in and live in it right away.

[wardprobst]

In another life, I helped start a hardwood floor company and did quite a bit of that work. I prefer finishing in place when possible. It's just way better than what you get with prefinished in looks, durability and the ability to be touched up. It is a hassle and it does require a sacrifice but solvent base properly applied is what I found to be the best.
YMMV,
DP

[chopnhack]

No surprise that we have a good representation of both options! To be expedient in either situation, it really is best to have nothing on the floor. That may mean renting temporary storage or relocating all of the first floor items elsewhere. That in itself is a challenge and at least a days work. Put prep is important, and being able to work unimpeded is priceless... I have lived through a professional refinish of oak strip flooring and it was about two days of dust and smell. If you can, relocate yourselves as well as the contents of the first floor!

Does it come out nice, sure. Does it compare to pre-finished? Well... they are really in two different leagues. If you have a large stretch of open area, there really is nothing like having long unbroken planks that you just can't get with pre-finished.

Pre-finished does have a hard as nails finish and color is fairly consistent from lots. The micro bevel is a nice feature that sets it apart from laminates.

It really all comes down to your preference. If it was my choice, I would go with store bought, just because I am familiar with them and their installation. If you really want finish in place, I would hire it out.

[JimD]

I agree with the "hire it out" part of finish in place. I've done it a couple times in limited areas but I used my normal sanding tools I am familar with. That turns it into a major chore. If I had rented real floor tools, it could have speeded me up but there would have also been a learning curve on the new tools. I do not want to learn how to handle new tools applying finish to my house floor. If I could practice on somebody else's house, maybe, but I don't have the time and energy for that. Knowing how to handle other tools helps but big floor sanders seem like something that will have a mind of their own and take a little while to master. Fortunately I have to ability to hire out what I don't feel good about doing. Once we get moved from the house we're in at the moment to the new house (new to us), I will need to do a little cosmetic cleanup on the current house to get it on the market. One of the items on the list is the floors on the first floor. There is one carpeted area I will probably change to oak because the carpet is worn out and I think it would sell better with all hardwoods. Since the rest of the floor is natural oak finished in place, I will probably put the new oak down myself, fix one bad spot, and then hire somebody to come in and sand and finish the entire floor. It will be empty and nobody will be around to deal with the fumes.

[vaking]

Thanks for all the info, I think I understand my options now.
Sanding tools are not a problem, I have refinished my deck before and couple bedrooms upstairs. Both times I rented floor sanders, so I am familiar how they work.
If I want to finish in place - I would want to apply multiple layers. In bedrooms upstairs I used 5 layers (1 shellac sealer + 4 urethane finish). It works well but even with water based chemicals it took a week and it had some smell. Oil based finish is more durable but it stinks a lot worse and dries longer, so it will take at least 2 weeks. I would want to finish the entire floor at once, so I will need to empty out furniture from 4 rooms at once. I will have to rent some storage for it and I will have to find a place to stay for 2 weeks since I can't come into the house during that period. This is all regardless I do it myself or hire out. If I want to do myself - during those 2 weeks I will need to show at home every day to sand and apply next layer, then go back wherever I am staying. All that sounds like a major hassle even if I hire it out. Floor finished in place will serve well for 10-15 years (I am guessing 15 years with oil finish, 10 with water), then I have to resand and refinish.
With prefinished floor I can do 1 room at a time, no smell and no sanding. I won't need storage and I won't need to move out for weeks. Refinishing prefinished floor will be harder if I ever need to do it, but factory finish is very hard and will probably last for 50 years ( I think I have seen some warranties like that on prefinished floors). Prefinished floor looks differently from finished in place, floor pieces have chamfers and there is possibility of dust accumulation in those chamfers, so this is something I need to look carefully before making my decision and then deciding if I am prepared to live with it.
At this moment I don't have compressor or any air tools, I hate the noise. My finish nailer is electric, takes 1-1/4" nails. In order to install floor myself I will definitely need compressor and floor nailer. Rent probably does not make much sense. I think I might be able to handle 150-200 sf of floor a day, so 1000 sf will take me a week. Rental rates I have seen are such that renting for 3-4 days is about same as buying, so I will be better off buying compressor and nailer. I think that floor nailer is not a hungry beast when in comes to cfm and hp on the compressor, hopefully a pancake compressor will do.

[cwsmith]

My home here in the Binghamton, NY area was built in 1887. Over the many years the originate oak floors have seen a lot of traffic and changes. Old coal furnace yanked out and the large heating registers and cold air returns were taken out and replaced with plywood, various holes where telephone or cable wires used to run up through the floor, etc. Also, there were add-ons like the living room expanded out to where the front porch used to be; and, an addition added to the back of the house sometime in the 30's.... where the flooring was just added on, with a straight seam where the old and new met.

Overall the floors were a real mess and on the first floor we just had them torn up and replaced with new prefinished oak everywhere except the kitchen where we had bamboo installed.

Upstairs the old floors were in much better condition and we had the refinished. But the 14 x 23 library had that "addition" seam down the middle, so we had that torn up and replaced with pre-finished oak.

Overall it was an okay job. But I personally don't like the fact that the prefinished stock has beveled edges and thuse the seams are dramatic. It was explaned that the manufacturers found it necessary because of some variation in thickness. I much prefer the old floors in that everything is tight and the only difference between boards is the grain.

The other problem of course is that the old floors have a few squeeks, while the new is nice and tight. BUT, the new stuff is much shorter runs, and you can really tell the difference. I guess you can pay a premium and get longer stock, but most companies seem to box up even pieces as short as a foot.

Also, an awful lot of blemishes in the new stock. The installer thought I was really being much too picky and at one point he got peeved. But for the cost of this stuff, I didn't expect indentations, discolorations, etc. He had to do some replacement which I think would have been avoided as I would have not installed those particular boards, if I was doing the job. But these guys just open the carton and lay the stuff down as fast as possible.

The floors been in about seven years now, it scratches all too easy IMO. Yet our daily practice is to remove our shows before entering and we both have "house shoes". But you can't really insist on that with company of course. (I think the Japanese custom is terrific )

The old floors, sanded and three coats of poly don't appear to show the scratches he way the new floors do. Also the grain of those old boards are much more figured.

CWS

[rcplaneguy]

I just got through having 2,400 sq ft of oak flooring and oak shoe molding sanded and refinished in a 1941 era house. Cost just over 8k (many stairs, closets, etc). Well worth the effort, the home value went up considerably. Sold the home last month, the flooring sold the house. The pros did the job inside of a week, working to midnight many days in a row. Minwax golden oak stain, 3 coats oil based poly. Keep resale value in mind, always. Historical restorations can pay off in the long run.
Ps: my bt3100 formed over 300 feet of replacement oak shoe molding, along with a router table.

[chopnhack]

Despite the harder finish, the floors still do scratch. Nothing is perfect... Also of note, over time, the finish may develop hairline cracks, probably from wood movement along the grain. I have some in a prefinished Armstrong wood floor I installed some 6-7 years ago. Only a woodworker would find it

Warranties are only as good as the paper they are written on...

[conwaygolfer]

Just finished installing full pallet of Bamboo pre finished flooring in a house I remodeled. Looks beautiful and did in a little over one day with one helper. I nailed it down onto roofing felt over plywood. I will never again install flooring that needs to be finished after installing. Way too much trouble. Just my thoughts.

Conwaygolfer