Replacement windows

[vaking]

I want to replace few windows in my house. Most major vendors offer either "new construction type" or "replacement type". The house has aluminum siding outside and new construction windows will be hard to install, so I want to install replacement windows. Replacement windows are installed inside existing frames without the need to rip out existing exterior trim. New construction typically has limited choice of sizes. The problem is that replacement windows are always "made to order" and they cost a lot more than new construction. For comparison comparable quality replacement windows begin at around $600 per window (that is just the window, no installation included) while new construction is around $250. I asked several people at stores about differences between "replacements vs New Construction" and all of them said the same thing - major difference is that new construction comes attached to a mounting fin. Such window is installed from the outside with the fin secured to exterion wall and it helps insulate the window. Replacements don't have that fin. Finally I am getting to my question:
I like a Pella Proline (450 series) type of windows. They are officially labeled "new construction" but on Pella that fin is made of flexible fabric type material and does not interfere or can be easily removed (unlike other brands). Lowes has in stock the exact size I would have been ordering if I were to order custom, so size selection is not a problem for me. Some of the people I asked hinted that Proline can be used as replacement type as well. Lowes employees don't say it officially but they imply it. So I wonder if anybody here is familiar with the topic and knows what real difference is between replacement windows and new construction? Would it be a bad idea to buy such window and try to install it as replacement?

[pelligrini]

I'm not all that familiar with replacement window installs. Most all the details I work with are for new construction; mounting fins, water proofing etc.. I have been impressed with Pella's fiberglass windows; performance, durability and cost.

I would contact your local Pella rep, they would probably be the best source for installation options.

[leehljp]

Thanks for this post. I am putting this in my bookmarks as I will need to replace 8 windows in the next 2 or 3 years, upgrading them from the old single paned type to a more energy efficient type. I looked online a few months ago and marked some sites, but this is the kind of thread that I am looking for.

[cabinetman]

I replaced 21 windows in our house with "new construction" type windows, from HD. They were American Craftsman/Anderson's (vinyl, LoE, double pane, argon gas) and there was no extra charges for custom sizes. When I looked at the difference in the "replacement" windows, the new construction looked to be the easiest to install. They work for any opening that has a frame.

If there is a wood jamb or block jamb, a frame can be added. The windows have a ½" flange that seats against a buck which can be ¾". When installing, the flange gets seated with caulk against the buck and there is ¼" from the edge of the flange to the window opening from the outside. The window frame is about 2¾" wide, and gets screwed from the inside to the buck.
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[wbsettle]

Replacement windows will leave you with less glass surface than you have now. Makes sense since it's a frame within a frame. The amount lost will vary by brand.

You didn't say what type of window you're replacing. For double-hungs, you can get sash replacement kits. Marvin, Jeld-wen, Lincoln, and MW all offer these types of kits in various material/glass combinations. I think MW has fixed sizes, but the others are custom fit. Price probably falls somewhere between new construction and replacement. I was quoted about $400/per for Lincoln vinyl clad wood with double plane insulated glass...MW ran about $200-250 for solid vinyl, but the rep wasn't sure their sizes would work with my frames, but was willing to order one and eat the cost if it didn't fit. I haven't talked to Marvin or Jeld-wen yet so the project is still pending. The actual replacement looks like about a 20 minute job per window...easy DIY if you're on this forum. :-)

-Brent

[Tom Slick]

I had the windows in my house replaced with Milgard vinyl retrofits. The quality of their construction and overall look is good but if I had it to do over again I'd install new construction windows.
Retrofits with a flange like I have are designed to work against flat siding such as stucco or T1-11 not a lap style siding so I had to mill up a custom profile to trim out the windows after they were installed.
If Pella doesn't specifically state they can be installed as a retrofit but you install them as such it'll void the warranty. That might not be an issue to you but I thought I'd throw it out for you to think about.

[vaking]

Firstly - Thanks to all contributors. I believe I got my answer and as usually - this forum comes through when I need help.
Cab-man. Your description was very clear. Thanks to it I realized that in order to seal the window properly I need to have a flange on the outer edge of the window. I believe Pella proline does not have it. I would have to look again and figure out if I can make it.
I do want to make one correction. American Craftsman is Anderson subsidiary that specializes in vinul replacement windows. What you have installed are replacement windows, not new construction. New construction windows are designed to be inserted from the outside and then attach to the house from the outside. The fin I mentioned in original post serves same function as the flange except it is pressed against house framing from outside and then sealed. I want to use windows with wooden interior, so I was not looking at pure vinul windows. Anderson makes "woodright" line of replacement windows with wood inside and vinul clad outside - but it is a different price range.
Brent,
I am replacing old double-hung single pane windows. I heard about sash replacement kits but never gave them any real thought. Intuitively - I expect that such kit need higher precision than replacement window to operate well and without leaks, which would mean higher cost. But you are correct, I should look into it closer, plus you gave me a few more name brands to look. Loss of glass area is obvious with replacement window. I live in an old house (1927) with lots of large windows. The first room that I want to do is a "florida room". It has 3 exterior walls and almost all of them are windowed. Small room with 7 54X36 windows - I can afford to lose some glass.
Tom,
Thanks for the thought - I have not considered loss of warranty. I must say, however, that the price difference is quite significant. I do not think I can find replacement windows for less than $400, new construction seems to be around $250. It means that I would need to actually make use of manufacturer's warranty on at least 30% of windows I install to break even. Pella is an established reputable company, I doubt they have 30% defect rate. It might make economic sense for me to ignore the warranty and be prepared to eat the cost if any product does turn out to be defective.

Overall - as I said I need to look again at Pella proline to see if I can modify the window to do the job. If I remember correctly this window has wood interior with aluminum-clad exterior. It is very likely I would need to cut that aluminum-clad to make a flange. If so - this is more than I am prepared to do and idea will have to be scraped. I may be comfortable cutting wood but not aluminum. Pity - back to the drawing board and more research.

[Norm in Fujino]

A photo of the existing windows might help, but in general, if the exterior trim is relatively simple frames, I'd rip them out and go with new type windows, then replace trim; that will give you a chance to check for any water damage under the old trim, and flash the windows properly.

[woodturner]

I am replacing old double-hung single pane windows. I heard about sash replacement kits but never gave them any real thought.

If the original windows are wood double hung window, think seriously about refurbishing them rather than replacing them. It's not difficult, well within the skill set of most DIYer's. Time to refurbish is less than time to replace, in most cases. Perhaps more significantly, it is MUCH less expensive and gives a better results.

Economically, replacement windows don't "work". The cost to replace is not recoverable in energy savings during the lifetime of the window, and a single pane window with a storm window is more energy efficient than any double or triple pane window can ever be (U value decreases (gets more energy efficient) in proportion to the thickness of the air space between the panes of glass - more is better).

A lot of good information on the arguments for refurbishment and the process can be found at historic homeworks:
www.historichomeworks.com

[All Thumbs]

Agree with everything Woodturner says. I've seen numerous studies that indicate that replacements windows can by slightly more energy efficient than leaky old windows with ill fitting storms. BUT, a little work on your existing windows can make them outperform the replacements.

Also, I have also seen numerous reports of replacement windows only lasting 20 years or so. Not great longevity.

[parnelli]

I am replacing old double-hung single pane windows. I heard about sash replacement kits but never gave them any real thought. Intuitively - I expect that such kit need higher precision than replacement window to operate well and without leaks, which would mean higher cost.

The sash kits are basically the same (functionally at least) parts to a standard window without the frame. If your exterior frame is in good shape it might be a good idea.

If you go look at Pella or Jeld Wen etc the sides that the window goes up and down on is pretty much plastic, and behind that are a couple of retainers and some foam rubber type weather strip pushing the plastic out. The foam is what makes the sides compressible to be able to remove/tilt/insert the window panels.

The sash kit has those retainers, foam, the side plastic 'runner' things and of course the window panes.