Another Wiring Query.....

[crybdr]

I'm toying with the idea of putting a small hot tub in my attached sun-porch. I'm looking at a Dream Maker spa - all of them run on 110v, but need a dedicated 15A or greater outlet. The existing outlet in my sun-porch is not dedicated.

I have a 20A breaker that is not currently being used in my service panel - it used to feed a bathroom heater which has been removed.

The portion of my basement (the front) adjacent to the sun-porch is finished. The back portion - where the shop is, is unfinished.

I could run some new wire up through the walls, into the attic, over to the sun-porch and drop a new outlet through the wall. This seems like a lot of work in a hot summer attic and potential frustration - but admittedly is the BEST way to do it.

However, I could run new wire across the shop through the wall to the outside - and then run it into the sun porch. This is more desireable because it doesn't require tearing into walls and rooting around in the attic with a fish tape. I understand that the outside portion would need a 'weatherproof' installation.

My question is (I'm no electrician)..... Is this even close to a realistic solution to getting a dedicated outlet to this location? Would it pass code if constructed correctly? If I decided to sell this home, would you as a potential buyer be concerned about this?

Here is a picture of the sun-porch location with annotations showing what I am thinking.



Any input would be appreciated. Thanks!

[reddog552]

Spa Wiring

680.12 Maintenance Disconnecting Means. One or more
means to simultaneously disconnect all ungrounded conductors
shall be provided for all utilization equipment other
than lighting. Each means shall be readily accessible and
within sight from its equipment and shall be located at least
1.5 m (5 ft) horizontally from the inside walls of a pool,
spa, or hot tub unless separated from the open water by a
permanently installed barrier that provides a 1.5 m (5 ft)
reach path or greater. This horizontal distance is to be measured
from the water’s edge along the shortest path required
to reach the disconnect.

[Mr__Bill]

680.12 Maintenance Disconnecting Means. One or more
means to simultaneously disconnect all ungrounded conductors
shall be provided for all utilization equipment other
than lighting. Each means shall be readily accessible and
within sight from its equipment and shall be located at least
1.5 m (5 ft) horizontally from the inside walls of a pool,
spa, or hot tub unless separated from the open water by a
permanently installed barrier that provides a 1.5 m (5 ft)
reach path or greater. This horizontal distance is to be measured
from the water’s edge along the shortest path required
to reach the disconnect.

Question: The OP has a plug in spa and not a hard wired one, does this still apply?

If the above does apply then the OP should look at the grounding requirements in his area for everything metal that is around the spa, and if lighting is allowed directly over the spa.

You also should be sure the floor of the porch can take the weight of the spa, water in the spa and 16 of your closest friends, or however many it holds.

This does not, however, address the original question. Not being an electrician or electrical inspector I can not with any authority answer it. I can say that I have seen outlets installed in a like manner by electricians that have passed inspection.

Hope everything works out, a spa should bring you years of enjoyment.

Bill
over here in the rain

[woodturner]

Question: The OP has a plug in spa and not a hard wired one, does this still apply?

It would, but the plug is a "disconnecting means" per code - it doesn't have to be a breaker or disconnect box.

[Rand]

If you are going to run the wire outside of the wall cavity it will need to be in conduit. It looks like in your picture you want to run the wire under the door. Is that right?

I'd think it would be easiest to just go across in the basement - even if it means cutting some drywall. BTW: The harbor freight multifunction tool works great for making clean cuts in drywall.

[pelligrini]

Like Rand said, it'll need to be put into conduit on the exterior. Shouldn't be much of a problem. Try to miss the stud when going through the basement wall. I always seem to nail one dead on every time, even with a stud sensor.

You might consider letting the conduit into the exterior siding once you get past the wall framing for the porch for a cleaner look. You might get it in far enough to cover it with some base trim.

Once you get the tub in there be sure to have a drip loop on the cord. I disregarded that advice on some fish tank equipment and created a bunch of sparks once.

[Mr__Bill]

It would, but the plug is a "disconnecting means" per code - it doesn't have to be a breaker or disconnect box.

I'm sorry, I really was not clear in my question. As a plug in appliance, do any electrical codes apply beyond those for an exterior receptacle? From a safety point of view it would be better if the plug and receptacle was not reachable from the spa but does the code have any authority here beyond mandating a GFCI protected receptacle for an outside location? This is after all a portable appliance.

On another note, the plug in 120V spas are not able to run the pumps and heater at the same time. The heater may not be able to keep the spa hot in the colder months with the cover open and if you run the pumps the temp of the spa can drop rather fast. We have a spa on a 60A 240V circuit, when the temp is below about 40 deg it will slowly drop in temp when in use and at about 30 deg it lost 2 to 3 deg in a half hour of use and that is with the heater running. Turn on the jets and the temp drops faster as you are circulating the warm water to the surface. My point is that in WI you may not be able to get much use out of a plug in spa in the winter and in winter is when it's so nice to sit in the spa with a Corona and imagine yourself in one of their beach commercials while the snow falls just a few feet away. (cue Margaritaville music). If you go the route of the plug in spa make sure you have some guarantee that it can maintain temp in the cold weather if for no other reason that to keep it from freezing up at 20 below.

Lets hope an electrician will give you some insight on the code issue of running the wire like you want too.

Here is a spa forum where you can ask questions from other users. It's sort of like BT3 but for spas. You won't get electrical questions answered but someone there will be able to tell you all about the spa you are looking at.

Bill
oh look, it's blue sky and no rain, must have some other natural disaster planned for today......

[crokett]

You can run the wiring through conduit. I would not run it under the siding, unprotected unless you went with BX (armored) cable. It might not fit under the siding if you did that though. You could paint the conduit and boxes to match the siding.

[woodturner]

I'm sorry, I really was not clear in my question. As a plug in appliance, do any electrical codes apply beyond those for an exterior receptacle? From a safety point of view it would be better if the plug and receptacle was not reachable from the spa but does the code have any authority here beyond mandating a GFCI protected receptacle for an outside location?

I don't know the code answer to those questions off the top of my head - that's not a section of NEC I work with regularly. There are code requirements concerning placement of receptacles in wet or potentially wet locations, such as bathrooms. I would expect there would be requirements for exterior receptacles, but will have to research the code to confirm this.