Concrete Pavers for the backyard

[radhak]

I have been shopping around for somebody to install pavers in my backyard. It's a tiny area, works out to just 1000 sq ft of grass. I am not comfortable doing this myself because I am not sure I can spare that time, nor am I up to that labor .

We were interested in the Bishop Hat pavers, that look like this:


As one can imagine - that's a bit intricate and maybe labor intensive design.

One guy looked at it cursorily and said that I should expect to pay around $6.50 per sq ft (material + labor). Then I saw somebody doing a driveway in the neighborhood and invited him in to take a look. He did, and his quote is $3.50/sqft, including everything from material, labor to cleanup! He said he'd dig it up, and layer up stones, sand and pavers, compacting all the way.

I searched the 'net, and this seems to be the lowest possible quote. I see that the cheapest these pavers sell for is around $2/sqft, which makes his labor just about $1.50 - that's what somebody quoted for laying a laminate floor! I have called him in next week.

While some might think this could be a too good to be true thing (like this chap would have charged me $9000 ), I can't see how this could go wrong, particularly because he has drawn up a very detailed and meticulous contract (area, material, color, layout, borders etc).

I paid a visit to the driveway he worked on last week and find absolutely great work there.

Any comments or prior experience to share?

[phi1l]

If you have a guy that is already working in the neighborhood, he is likely to be able to do it for less because of the logistics. also he apparently has a good crew that is actually working & may be bidding lower just to keep them together. Also if he does a lot of work with the supplier, he may be getting a break on the material cost, which for some reason he is passing along to you.

So there are valid reasons why his price might be quite a bit lower than the other guys.

If you can see that he does good work, & has happy clients, go for it.

Good Luck,

[woodturner]

I searched the 'net, and this seems to be the lowest possible quote. I see that the cheapest these pavers sell for is around $2/sqft, which makes his labor just about $1.50 - that's what somebody quoted for laying a laminate floor! I have called him in next week.

Those are retail prices, not the wholesale prices contractors pay. Contractors typically get a 30% to 70% discount off retail pricing.

The details of paver installation make a huge difference - they all look good at first, but a few years down the road....

Try to look at this guy's work from a few years back to see how it is holding up.

What is proposing for substrate? 6" to 12" of compacted, crushed gravel, followed by 4" of sand, is typical. Does he do his own excavation? Does he dispose of the dirt that is dug out? How does he compact the substrate?

What does he use for edge strips? Metal angle? Plastic angle?

There will be some variation in labor rates, but my suspicion is that the lower cost guy is saving money by skimping on the substrate preparation. If so, his work will likely not last.

[cabinetman]

I searched the 'net, and this seems to be the lowest possible quote. I see that the cheapest these pavers sell for is around $2/sqft, which makes his labor just about $1.50 - that's what somebody quoted for laying a laminate floor! I have called him in next week.

I'm in a similar circumstance. The difference is I already have the pavers. I've had several quotes for materials and labor excluding the pavers. I'm getting an average of $1.00/sq ft. or less. I wouldn't attempt to quote you what discounts contractors get for materials as that would vary. Some of the bids I've gotten are completely broken down showing the costs for everything. As long as the estimate and your contract documents fully outline what and how everything is done the better. Don't leave any question unanswered. Make a list of what you want to discuss and check them off when they are answered.
.

[Tom Slick]

Those are retail prices, not the wholesale prices contractors pay. Contractors typically get a 30% to 70% discount off retail pricing.

The details of paver installation make a huge difference - they all look good at first, but a few years down the road....

Try to look at this guy's work from a few years back to see how it is holding up.

What is proposing for substrate? 6" to 12" of compacted, crushed gravel, followed by 4" of sand, is typical. Does he do his own excavation? Does he dispose of the dirt that is dug out? How does he compact the substrate?

What does he use for edge strips? Metal angle? Plastic angle?

There will be some variation in labor rates, but my suspicion is that the lower cost guy is saving money by skimping on the substrate preparation. If so, his work will likely not last.

+1
make sure the inexpensive guy isn't just setting them on the ground or you'll be hiring the other guy to redo the job in a few years.

[atgcpaul]

That is an incredible price! When I was pricing my patio this summer, I
consistently got quotes for $11-13/sqft for 700sqft. That included all the
excavation and haul away. I even did a much simpler pattern than yours. If
yours requires cutting, that will be a lot of waste, too.

In the end I found a contractor on Craigslist to do the excavation and haul
away, then I did the installation myself. Even by doing it mostly myself, at
best I did it for $7/sqft.

I must live in a really expensive area of the country. Check out this guy's
older work. If it's still holding up, go for it!

[chopnhack]

Since this is for the backyard, I dont think you will require 6-12" of base. Driveway yes, but backyard I think that might be too much, I would be surprised if they did anything over 4" - being this is Florida most just come out and sprinkle some reclaimed concrete, wet it and use another inch of sand

[cabinetman]

Since this is for the backyard, I dont think you will require 6-12" of base. Driveway yes, but backyard I think that might be too much, I would be surprised if they did anything over 4" - being this is Florida most just come out and sprinkle some reclaimed concrete, wet it and use another inch of sand

My neighbor had his driveway done. They used 4" of rock and the bedding sand with landscape mesh. It's held up well, still all flat. But, there's still small weeds that grow through. Any way of preventing that excluding spraying afterward?
.

[atgcpaul]

My neighbor had his driveway done. They used 4" of rock and the bedding sand with landscape mesh. It's held up well, still all flat. But, there's still small weeds that grow through. Any way of preventing that excluding spraying afterward?
.

I used polymeric sand to pack the joints. It's sand mixed with some kind of
flexible glue that sets up pretty hard. It's supposed to prevent weeds from
growing through and ants from making it their home. Time will tell. My patio
is not even 3 months old. The finish product looks great, though.

The only problem I have with it right now is that it sets up kind of hard. I
installed these lights in the pavers (think Michael Jackson's Billie Jean video
but paver sized). One connection is finicky and I think another has a burned
out bulb. It's not going to be fun to dig out this sand to get the lights out.

Paul

[Salty]

I have reset all of the walkway pavers that are around my house.
The polymeric sand has worked great for me. The first area has been down for about 2 years. It is showing some signs of wear and I will probably dig out the upper 1/4" or so and redo it. No weeds between the stones though and that is one of the great things about it. It also stays there with the freeze thaw movement.
DON"T BUY THE CHEAP STUFF AT THE BOX STORES!
Sorry about the shouting but I cannot say strongly enough that you must get the stuff that is around $25 a bag. The cheap stuff will wash out from the rain in just a few weeks. And don't skimp on the process of wetting it. Do it like the directions say and it will work great.