Any Recommendations on a Tankless Water Heater?

[ragswl4]

Anyone out there have a tankless water heater that they like or don't like? We are leaning in that direction for our new home. We have 2.5 baths and all the other normal hot water appliances. I have looked at reviews on the web but for every good review I find a bad one on the same unit. Bosch is a good example of this. Thanks.

[Tom Slick]

Rinnai and Takagi are the best that I know of. I've read many complaints about bosch units and two plumbers I've spoken to said they've removed Boschs because they don't perform as advertised.
How cold is your ground water, do your "neighbors" use tankless units successfully? A tankless can only raise the water temp a certain amount so if your water is really cold to begin with you'll only ever get warm water.
How many days can you go without hot water? If the water heater goes out and parts are a couple of days away is that okay? With a conventional water heater parts and entire units are available at the hardware store/BORG.

[billwmeyer]

I have a Bosch, and I love it. It is the smaller one, I don't have model numbers where I am at. When the temperature gets in the teens, I have somewhat lower temperature water. I shower without any cold water combined. This would be a problem with long winters of teen or lower temperatures. My wife loves it as she can shower until she empties the city's water tower. Since I have the smaller unit, only one application of hot water use can be done at once. It is like having the water pressure drop down. If I had it to do again, I might go with a larger unit, but we simply do not run the dishwasher or clothes washer at the same time, or shower when one of them is running. This has never been much of an inconvienence.

Bill

[Tom Slick]

I should clarify my above post:
The issues with the Boschs have been multiple user issues. "endless" hot water gets cold because someone turns on the hot water somewhere else like washing hands or dishes.

[Photojosh]

I have no advice for specific models and whatnot. But now is a good time to pick one up if you are going to make the switch. because you can get something like 30% back as a credit on your income tax. Not just a deduction, but an actual CREDIT off of the total you owe the IRS.

At least as I understand it. I'm no accountant.

[leehljp]

From a different perspective (i.e. Japan ) We have had them for the past 18 years in 2 different houses and they beat tanks hands down. There is a somewhat noticeable difference when someone else uses the water in another location, but that is a piping/flow pressure problem that occurs with tanks also. At our current house, we have one for two bathrooms and a separate one for the kitchen. Each unit is located near the usage point.

In our former house, we had one for each bathroom (2) and one for the kitchen.

There are two items to consider:
1. Are you thinking of a whole house single unit?
or
2. Are you thinking of locating one at each user location for "Instant-On"

Using smaller units at each user location (1. bathroom, 2. bathroom, 3. kitchen - or one for bathroom(s), one for kitchen) will provide almost Instant-On (4 to 8 seconds) hot water from the tap.

A single whole house unit will still take 15 to 25 seconds of running water to get hot water at the tap. Not a big difference but over a years time, that is a small hit on water and gas bill usage that is waste.

One other item: our units have an individual on/off - temp controllers (like thermostats) mounted on the wall near the usage points. In the winter, we adjust ours up to 55°C or about 130°F. In spring/summer/fall, we set the temp to 45°C or about 115°F.

[crokett]

No specific experience with one other than the small ones - installed one for my wife's studio shower. I looked into a big unit for our house but we are all electric here. The gas one is the one you want. You can get all electric but it takes 200A just to run the water heater.

[ragswl4]

We want a whole house unit. I guess our winter time off the street water temp will be around 35-40 degrees with the outside temperature getting down to 10 degrees during the night for 2-3 months of the year. Unfortunately our building plans call for a tankless heater (under the Title 24 of Kalifornia) so don't think we can go to a tank type heater. It appears we will need a 7.5 GPM unit @45 degrees of temperature rise, less flow at higher temp rise requirements. Looking at Bosch, Rheem and Paloma (think its the same as Rheem). Takagi is out of the budget, too expensive.

[chopnhack]

No specific experience with one other than the small ones - installed one for my wife's studio shower. I looked into a big unit for our house but we are all electric here. The gas one is the one you want. You can get all electric but it takes 200A just to run the water heater.

What size are you talking about crokett? that uses 200A

[Dirty Dave]

I have had the Bosch Aquastar for eight years. My experience has been the same as Hank.

[crokett]

What size are you talking about crokett? that uses 200A

Really really big - whole house big. The one I installed for my wife requires a 60A circuit and it is only rated at about a 40 degree rise at 2GPM. I looked at them briefly at Lowes and online and IIRC the ones you would use for a whole house required something like 200A. I remember thinking it would just about rate its own meter.

[cabinetman]

Interesting thread, as we are considering going from a gas heater to tankless. We like gas over electric, and wonder if a tankless can provide extended supply like for a long shower.
.

[leehljp]

Interesting thread, as we are considering going from a gas heater to tankless. We like gas over electric, and wonder if a tankless can provide extended supply like for a long shower.
.

Ours are gas and they provide hot water for as long as you want. No limits. I was surprised to see Croketts and Rags note on the 40 to 45 degree rise. I can understand that if that means a 40 to 45 degree choice in low versus high settings on the thermostat. But it does not make sense for a 40 to 45 degree rise from the entrance side temp.

I know that our tankless systems allow you to set the temp and they certainly have more than that. In fact they don't mention the "rise" over here. They mention just the outlet temps available. Our thermostats start at 37°C (98.6) as the lowest option, and tops out at 75°C (167°F). LOML keeps the kitchen set on 60°C (140F) and mixes cold with it to regulate the temp. I promise you that water is HOT. In winter, there is barely a noticeable drop in the temp for that setting. The one thing I do notice is that until the temp is achieved, the flow is slightly impeded.

By the way, the tankless units at this house are about 15 years old and are not as efficient as the new ones available today. Still, our gas bill for two people and guests about once months - for the two tankless units plus gas stove/oven are the equivalent of $60 - $80 a month over here in Japan, where energy is much higher than the US.

[crokett]

Lee, when I was sizing one for my wife's studio shower I was looking at the little ones so maybe the bigger ones are rated differently but most of them were rated at x degrees rise in temps per GPM. The faster the water went through, the less the temps went up. So the 40 degree rise might have been up at 5 or 6 GPM, I don't recall. The bigger ones might be specc'd differently.

[mschrank]

I've had a Takagi for 3-4 years now....absolutely no problems. I would never go back to a tank. Besides the endless hot water, I really appreciate the space savings.

I don't know if/when we will pay off the purchase price difference vs. going with a tank, but the gas savings were immediately noticeable.