Refinishing woodwork- do you have to go down to bare wood?

[BigguyZ]

OK, obviously when I'm making something, I'm starting from bare wood. But my brother just bought a duplex, and he'd rather keep the woodwork stained than paint it. So, although I tell him that I'd really sand down to bare wood, he's wondering if it's possible to sand a bit, and then re-stain/ poly the wood. I'm guessing not, but if he can't maintain the original look of the wood without too much more additional labor, I'm afraid it's painting time.

So, what say you scholars?

[chopnhack]

Depends a lot on the existing finish. Is it urethane, lacquer, some type of varnish?? Each will have to be treated a little differently. My guess is that it was probably finished using some type of minwax product, combination of stain and urethane. For that you may have a hard time just doing a "scuff" sand because some of the pigment may still stay behind. Others will chime in soon, but for the work involved it would be easier and cheaper to simply paint the trim.

What is wrong with the wood work that requires the change, is it really damaged or is it the wrong color?

[Pappy]

To restain, whether to even out or change the color, the top coat will have to be removed completely either with strippers or by sanding.

[BigguyZ]

Depends a lot on the existing finish. Is it urethane, lacquer, some type of varnish?? Each will have to be treated a little differently. My guess is that it was probably finished using some type of minwax product, combination of stain and urethane. For that you may have a hard time just doing a "scuff" sand because some of the pigment may still stay behind. Others will chime in soon, but for the work involved it would be easier and cheaper to simply paint the trim.

What is wrong with the wood work that requires the change, is it really damaged or is it the wrong color?

The color's fine- it's just been abused. It's original, so we'd like to maintain it, but it's just too much work/ time to do a proper job of it.

So, has anyone had decent results with a "scuff" sand, and a new coat of stain/ poly? Maybe a comination product?

Thanks

[jabe]

If you just scuff sand and restain, you might not get a uniform color, if you can live with that then thats fine. Usually in a old house some imperfections can be acceptable. If the house is 90 to 100yrs. old, it might have shellac as the top coat. I would get it tested as to what type of finish was used then proceed with what is recommended for that product.

[cabinetman]

Some old finishes can be scuffed sanded and refinished. While doing this step repair any obvious defects. Oil base stain will stick to many finishes. Before sanding, a complete cleaning to remove all foreign matter, which could be oils, waxes, furniture polish, etc. Mineral spirits will usually do a pretty good job, and if not used in excess won't remove any film finish.

Once prepped, wiping with a pigmented stain may color out evenly. Or, the stain could be mixed with an interior varnish and blush sprayed for coloring. It may not take much to apply a good looking coating.

Stripping down to bare wood may reveal some surprises, but it will provide a good medium to start over. It all depends on how much work you want to put into it.
.

[Jim Frye]

Woodwork Touch Up...

The color's fine- it's just been abused. It's original, so we'd like to maintain it, but it's just too much work/ time to do a proper job of it.

So, has anyone had decent results with a "scuff" sand, and a new coat of stain/ poly? Maybe a comination product?

Thanks

I have been doing this in our home for years. Our house was built as a "spec" house with cheap, prefinished woodwork. It is Meranti, a really cheap form of mahogany and it damages easily. I am currently replacing all of the woodwork and interior doors in the house with oak. Anyway, when something gets scratched, or dinged, I scuff things with a gray, non-woven abrasive pad and wipe the board with mineral spirits to clean the board. I then use a matching stain to color in the damage. Oil based stains will not adhere to the varnished surfaces, so it will be easy to do the touch up. I then wipe on a coat of matching varnish to protect the touch up. I also have used this method to freshen up vanities and kitchen cabinets. Of course you have clean and scuff the entire surface on those. Don't try to use a combination product like "Polyshades". That stuff is the worst thing ever put in a can. It will be impossible to get an even coloration on the baseboard. Minwax also makes stain pens that are very useful for touching up nicks and scratches. They are also refillable by removing the tip housing and simply filling the tube. If you don't know what the topcoat is, try these steps. 1. Put some denatured alcohol on the surface. If it softens the finish, then it is shellac. 2. Put some lacquer thinner on the surface. If it softens, it is lacquer. 3. If neither solvent has had any effect on the surface finish, then it is varnish.

[cabinetman]

f you don't know what the topcoat is, try these steps. 1. Put some denatured alcohol on the surface. If it softens the finish, then it is shellac. 2. Put some lacquer thinner on the surface. If it softens, it is lacquer. 3. If neither solvent has had any effect on the surface finish, then it is varnish.

That's not that good of a test, as lacquer thinner will react with most all film finishes.
.

[Jim Frye]

Test Validity...

That's not that good of a test, as lacquer thinner will react with most all film finishes.
.

Actually, it is a long accepted test that has been written up in several books and is often quoted on other forums. The test should be done in the order specified as lacquer thinner will dissolve shellac, so you need to eliminate shellac first. Lacquer thinner will not affect cured varnish. Shellac and lacquer are evaporative finishes. They form the finish film by having the solvent (denatured alcohol or lacquer thinner) evoporate. The film can be reliqufied by reintroducing the solvent. Varnish is a reactive finish. The film is formed by reacting with a catalyst (in varnish's case, air) allowing the molecules of the varnish to bond together forming the finish film. The solvent in varnish (mineral spirits) keeps the molecules from reacting to bond at the molecular level. Once cured, the varnish finish can not unbond. Lacquer thinner will not soften cured varnish. Try it. I just did on a piece of oak that I varnished last week.

[Gator95]

OK, obviously when I'm making something, I'm starting from bare wood. But my brother just bought a duplex, and he'd rather keep the woodwork stained than paint it. So, although I tell him that I'd really sand down to bare wood, he's wondering if it's possible to sand a bit, and then re-stain/ poly the wood. I'm guessing not, but if he can't maintain the original look of the wood without too much more additional labor, I'm afraid it's painting time.

So, what say you scholars?

What kind of woodwork, and where in the house is it?

[JR]

Have you tried chemical stripper? It is very effective at removing top coats. You might be surprised how easy it is get the wood in shape for a new finish. One complicating factor would be the complexity of the profile on the baseboard. If the profile is pretty straightfoward you might find this to be an effective choice.

Truth in lending statement: I've stripped a fair bit of wood, mostly shelves and the like. Then I've usually planed the wood to get new looking lumber. Re-finishing baseboards in place, which I have not done, runs the risk that some residual finish remains in place. You could learn to like the result, or sand it at that point, or punt.

JR

[Shep]

Here's my 2cents. If it's a rental property that will get some abuse, I would not even try refinish it. Your brother will kinck himself when the tenants move out and leave his nice work destroyed. I own a 85 year old duplex that has nice painted woodwork. Everytime I have a tenant move out they seem to hit every square inch of the woodwork. For me, it's easier to wash and or paint the trim each time. If the duplex is in a nicer area that has higher rental income, then go ahead with the refurb. Your brother might want to check out other rentals in the area to see what their situation is before committing.

[BigguyZ]

What kind of woodwork, and where in the house is it?

It's Oak, in the living/ dinning room.

The area the duplex is in is NOT in an upscale part of the neighborhood. However, he's always gotten rents well above the average for the area because he puts in extra work to the duplex. Also, we have an appreciation for older homes, and like to do things right. That said, it may indeed be the best to just paint it. We'll see.