Wax Toilet Ring Question

[cabinetman]

I'm doing a bathroom renovation, including installing a new toilet. A little background on my plumbing endeavors... I hate plumbing.

Anyway, my question is pretty simple. Which ring, and where to place it when setting down the toilet. When we had our sewer line hook up, our plumber removed one toilet and when he re-installed it he used a regular ring and placed it on the floor flange, not the underside of the toilet. He also did not recommend using the one with a plastic funnel because they reduce the orifice size for waste flow.

Well, I'm kind of "follow the instructions guy". The instructions with the toilet says to place it on the underside of the toilet, and the included wax ring was just a plain ol' ring.

All of the toilets I've ever installed I placed the ring on the toilet first. Some of the websites I checked out says to put it on the floor, others say put it on the toilet. Which is best? And, which ring is best?

Oh, one more thing. A few websites recommend not using the plastic catch tabs for the bolt covers. They say that as they can wear from any movement and weight transfer, will create the possibility for leaks. Is there any truth to that?
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[BigguyZ]

Personally, I've replaced a total of 8 or 9 toilets in my time, and I've found it easiest to put the ring on the flange, not the toilet.

As far as what type of ring, I lile the ones Menards sells (I can't remember the brand). They're not the reinforced ones, which I hate since they seem to create issues with the flange fitting on the toilet. I do know that the ring I use has the plastic boot, which I like. For most of the toilets I've seen, the boot is no smaller than the diameter of the opening at the bottom of the toilet. So, there's really no effect of restricting flow for the toilet.

Lastly, regarding the plastic tabs- I guess I see their point, but I've done all nearly all of the toilet intallations myself, and it'd be nearly impossible to line everything up without them. So far, I haven't had a leak on a toilet I've installed.

[Gator95]

I've done it both ways. I think it's easier to put the ring on the floor, but if you do it that way it is EXTREMELY important to make sure you line up the toilet directly over where it will go and ease it straight down. It should sit on top of the wax ring, and when you push down you should feel the ring 'squish' a little as the toilet goes flush to the floor. I've used both the wax ring with funnel (came with the Kohler toilet) and a simple #1 Bol-Wax ring without any bells or whistles. Both work fine.

Also, I always 'dry fit' the toilet on the flange first without the ring to ensure the toilet will sit flush to the floor, and do a check to ensure the wax ring I've got will more than fill the distance between the bottom of the toilet around the waste outflow and the top of the flange.

When I dry-fit and have the toilet centered on the flange and even with the walls, I'll take a thin strip of tape and attach to the toilet and the floor in front and both sides aligned with the center of toilet and the bolt holes, then cut it so half is on the toilet and half on the floor. Then I use that to align as I lower it down. Helps to have a helper here.

[Gator95]

Oh, one more thing. A few websites recommend not using the plastic catch tabs for the bolt covers. They say that as they can wear from any movement and weight transfer, will create the possibility for leaks. Is there any truth to that?

Got a link? Not clear to me what this is. Is this the little half-dome that covers the bolt after you saw it down? If so... not sure how this can cause a leak.

[cabinetman]

Got a link? Not clear to me what this is. Is this the little half-dome that covers the bolt after you saw it down? If so... not sure how this can cause a leak.

THIS PDF is a "How To". It states to place the ring on the floor. On the beginning of page 81 is the discussion of not using the tabs for the bolt cap covers.
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[Gator95]

THIS PDF is a "How To". It states to place the ring on the floor. On the beginning of page 81 is the discussion of not using the tabs for the bolt cap covers.
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Nice resource, some cool tips there. Wish I'd seen it earlier, I like the idea of fixing the bolts to the flange before the toilet goes on top. I just used the friction in the flange slide to hold them in place before the toilet was bolted onto it.

Given the detail that this has, and the amount of thought that goes into it, I wouldn't hesitate to set the wax on the flange as outlined in this guide. Guy sounds like he knows what he's doing.

Have fun. Plumbing sucks.

[tseavoy]

I have always put it on the toilet. Never had a problem. I also use the rings with the plastic gizmo. Some put two wax rings on to make sure there will be no gaps. The second ring is a plain wax ring. I did that once when I redid a bathroom and the new floor was a little above the toilet flange.
Line up the toilet very carefully before setting it down.

Tom on Marrowstone

[Mr__Bill]

About that plastic gizmo of a funnel, if you have a mixing valve for the toilet that puts room temp water into the tank, and the valve fails and puts hot water in, after a while the wax ring starts to soften and the plastic funnel falls out and plugs the line.

The ring with the funnel is usually used when the floor has been raised and you want to make sure the stuff goes right into the pipe.

This from the plummer that used to work with me.

As for the plastic caps on the flange bolts, they make ones that have the thing that screws on to the end of the bolt and holds the plastic cup, no plastic under the nut to breakdown and loosen up the nut.

Bill

[chopnhack]

C-man, all the toilets that I have put down (6+) I have used both methods but started to favor the wax ring on the toilet itself method then lower down. Make sure that you twist the ring on good so that it seats and adheres to the underside of the toilet. I too do a dry fit first and make some alignment marks on toilet and floor. I have only used the wax-only style rings. I do like the 2x (double) thick rings for certain installs. They are a god send when you have a very uneven floor or an overly built up floor. Wax-only is great because as you put pressure, the wax squeezes every where it needs to be! When finished installing I like to mix up some grout if its a tile floor and grout in the toilet - gives it a rock solid base without needing to torque the johnny-bolts. If its linoleum or wood, use some plaster of paris in a couple of spots on the inside before you set the toilet and you will accomplish the same, then of course caulk the outside.
hope this helps

[alpha]

I have installed a dozen or so. I have put the wax ring on the toilet sometimes and the flange sometimes with equal success. The most difficult part for me is lining up the toilet with the bolts. If you get a couple big straws to place over the bolts you can line it up much easier. Also, you can use shims to level the toilet if your floor is uneven.

My wife couldn't believe that I placed an ad in the paper to sell the two used toilets I replaced. After I sold them the first day the ad ran, she still shook her head and said some people will buy anything.

[chopnhack]

hey, there is nothing wrong with that. Those toilets took a lot of energy to be made, it would be a shame to just bust them up into pieces!

[cabinetman]

When finished installing I like to mix up some grout if its a tile floor and grout in the toilet - gives it a rock solid base without needing to torque the johnny-bolts. If its linoleum or wood, use some plaster of paris in a couple of spots on the inside before you set the toilet and you will accomplish the same, then of course caulk the outside.
hope this helps

A tip I picked up years ago was that whatever you use to trim/fill (grout/caulk) around the toilet base, leave an opening in the back in case there ever is a leak, it can be detected.
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[chopnhack]

Very good point C-man! Very important when on 2nd + floors, but for slab on grade, I would assume less of an issue. Good point!!

[crokett]

About that plastic gizmo of a funnel, if you have a mixing valve for the toilet that puts room temp water into the tank, and the valve fails and puts hot water in, after a while the wax ring starts to soften and the plastic funnel falls out and plugs the line.

Why would you put room temp water into a toilet? Every toilet I've ever worked on only used cold water. I can't see a reason to ever need warm water in a toilet.

[eccentrictinkerer]

Why would you put room temp water into a toilet? Every toilet I've ever worked on only used cold water. I can't see a reason to ever need warm water in a toilet.

I believe that it's done to prevent the tank from sweating in hot, humid weather.