Anchoring a Railing Post To Brick

[crokett]

My next project after the bath will be to add a railing to the brick wall I made for the patio a while ago. One end will be secured to an existing wall. The other will be secured to a post. I need to secure the post to the top of the wall. A standard post anchor won't be strong enough I don't think. The post will be a 4x4 sleeved in vinyl so I was planning on using 2 2x4s glued and screwed together. For the anchor I was thinking of dadoing the 2x4s to create a channel for some black pipe, then getting one of those wall mounts that the pipe screws into and screwing that to the brick for the anchor. Screw the pipe into that then slip the post over it.

[chopnhack]

um....it may just be me crockett, but I am lost with your explanation. Illustrate please.

[crokett]

Dado one face of each 2x4 so when they are screwed together there is a very long, very narrow mortise in the resulting 4x4 post.

Then tapcon one of these to the brick:

I was wrong, it is officially called a floor flange.
http://www.usahardware.com/inet/shop...nal/163952.htm

Screw the black pipe into it, then drop the post over the pipe so the pipe is in the mortise. I'd also have to route a counterbore into the post for the flange.

[cabinetman]

um....it may just be me crockett, but I am lost with your explanation. Illustrate please.

It's not just you. The explanation is confusing to me too.

David: It sounds like the post is free standing, and the top of it is to be fastened to a wall. Does that mean the top gets fastened horizontally? Actually a quick pencil sketch would help in describing what goes where, and what has to get fastened to what.
.

[Thalermade]

My understanding is that the post is at the end of the railing, so it is more or less freestanding. He wants to use a vertical pipe inside his vertical post as support.

Sounds like a solid idea. I would also set the floor flange in base of caulk or something similar to help ward off unwanted moisture. Maybe even cover the tapcons with as well.

Oh yeah, I would also torque the pipe into the flange before I mounted the flange to the surface with the tapcons.

My only concern is the brick that you will be attaching to? Is it a standard wall brick?

Hope this helps.
Russ

[just started]

Is this a decorative rail or is it meant to used as a safety rail? If decorative only, you should be good to go but if anyone will be able to lean on the rail you need more strength than just a single brick along the top of a wall.

[crokett]

My only concern is the brick that you will be attaching to? Is it a standard wall brick?

Hope this helps.
Russ

It is a standard wall brick. But it will be 4 tapcons into it. I would set things up so 2 screws are in one brick and two are in another so both bricks and/or the mortar joints would have to fail.

I was looking for pictures last night of the wall but I guess I didn't take any. It is a retaining wall, 2' high, brick veneer over concrete block.

[chopnhack]

What size pipe were you thinking? If you are dadoing out much material, there won't be a whole lot left structurally. I would think at a minimum you would want at least 3/4 black iron pipe. Bigger would be better in this case since its a safety issue. If the brick is veneer at the attachment point? then use longer tapcons to go into the cinder block as well. Did you pour the cells with concrete?

[crokett]

Cells are poured with concrete. I was thinking 1" pipe, minimum. Using longer tapcons is a good idea. I know these things are pretty strong. I used black pipe as my lumber rack at my old house and had them screwed to a blocking on a stud. I was able to hang from one for at least a little bit without it failing.

[pelligrini]

The flange and pipe should be ok. I don't think there would be much difference between the sizes of the pipe, be it 3/4 or 1". The bigger base would be beneficial, getting the fasteners spaced out as much as possible should help in resisting the laterial forces that might be applied to the guard.

In most cases like this we'll have an iron company fabricate some mounting brackets. Really simple; some square rod welded perpindicular to a plate that has been drilled for 4 fasteners. Depending on the conditions, tapcons or maybe an epoxy/bolt system to fasten.

[pecker]

Just in case you hadn't thought of it...Two 2x4's screwed together don't make a 4x4. You get a 3x3-1/2, which might not work in your vinyl sleeve.

Easy enough to correct for.

[crokett]

Just in case you hadn't thought of it...Two 2x4's screwed together don't make a 4x4. You get a 3x3-1/2, which might not work in your vinyl sleeve.

Easy enough to correct for.

Yeah, my brother pointed that out today. I usually know better. I've framed in enough door headers. I have some 1/2" stock I can shim it with.

[chopnhack]

you may also want to use some outdoor rated construction adhesive to make your sandwich. In case water gets in the sleeve, it may help to hold things together more than just nails. And what pellegrini was saying ++ - you can do that as well by getting 1/4" plate. Drill some through holes were original holes are on the pipe flange, tapcon through that and put some additional holes further out. That is if you have the room to conceal all of this.

Is this the vertical post or is this going to be the handrail portion?

[crokett]

Good idea on the plate. How big? I think I can conceal it. I have some vinyl trim somewhere around here that I could use. IIRC it is about 5" wide and is much longer than I need.

[chopnhack]

How wide will depend on how thick the plate you use is. The wider the plate the thicker it will need to be. Lets not over engineer this too much either though. Ask Loring if he can help give you a recommendation. I should think 1/4" thick steel plate 4"x4" should be plenty massive. Welding is a question mark for me on this, they are somewhat dissimilar metals (both iron based)I guess in theory you could weld them -idk. Throw a couple of welds to hold the pipe flange in place while finaggleing all of this or simply sacrifice one hole on the flange to bolt together the assembly.