Roof repair/replace question - Is this fair?

[Alex Franke]

We had a company come out to take a look at the roof -- we knew it had some problems, but it's also getting up there in age, so we didn't know if we should repair or replace. They recommended repairing because we "could get a few more years out of this roof."

Well, they came to do the work today, and after they finished the repairs, they explained that we really needed a new roof.

Right now I'm pretty disappointed, because I would have expected the estimator's opinion to be in line with the opinions of the guys that are doing the work. If we really needed a new roof, then isn't that what they should have suggested and estimated in the first place?

He's going to go back to the estimator and see what the cost would be now to replace it -- and see what kind of discount they might be able to provide since they already did this work. But I have to say that I'm really annoyed that I just paid to have someone do work that they felt needed to be thrown out soon anyway....

Any thoughts/suggestions welcome!

[Knottscott]

I suppose it's always an "educated guess" at best. Ya never know, but I doubt they'll come up with a number that looks overly attractive on a new roof...at least not one that ignores what they've put into the repair....but maybe. If the quote is unattractive, I'd probably just take advantage of the "few years" with the repaired roof, and replace as needed....you could get several years....it depends on a lot of things.

A 2nd opinion wouldn't hurt, but keep in mind a 2nd (or 3rd) opinions usually come from someone looking to do some work.

Good luck!

[Alex Franke]

If the quote is unattractive, I'd probably just take advantage of the "few years" with the repaired roof, and replace as needed....you could get several years....it depends on a lot of things.

Yeah, that's the problem -- the company went from saying "you can get a few more years out of it" (before the work was done) to "you really should replace it soon" (after they did the work).

I'll see what they come back with, I guess. Thanks for the input so far!

[Gator95]

Could very well be that once the repair folks got up there and into the job they found more damage than was apparent to the estimator just looking at the roof without tearing into it.

OTOH, the estimator said most of the roof is ok, but we'll fix this 9 sq. foot area and that is the only area that was touched, but the folks doing the job said the whole roof was shot then I'd be pretty miffed.

Also: the statements "you should replace it soon" and "you could get a couple more years out of it" are not in disagreement. Soon is relative.

[chopnhack]

Alex, be very careful. Small savings on something like your roof can turn into some really big pains. If you get water damage you will be awefully upset. The damage can be something small like mold and staining on the ceiling below all the way up to catastrophe. Not to scare you, but there are lots of roofers looking for work and not all are respectable. Find 2-3 reputable roofers who have been around awhile, ask some neighbors and any builders you may know for some suggestions. Repair if you need to, but make sure you don't overlook something that can "let go" during the next major t-storm.
just my 2 bits

[Hellrazor]

I've done a decent number of roof jobs in the last 8 years. 3tab (yuck), architectural, metal, standing seam metal, rubber, etc. I also work with contractors to maintain the various kinds of roofing at work. We have EPDM, TPO, etc.

I would qualify what they did as a ripoff job. Claim it was repairable, do the work and then recommend replacement. Quick way to make some money and keep their hand in the cookie jar. Their "discount" discussion is a joke, they already made money and are trying to make more.

I will tell you the same thing I tell everyone else:
1. Get multiple estimates.
2. Make sure to specify all of the work you want done and the shingles you want. This eliminates some of the games they play. "I want everything ripped off down to the decking, the decking inspected, new tarpaper, new drip edge, new flashing, 40 year architectural shingles, new roof vents, all products nailed down, *no staples*,etc."
3. If you want to annoy them, ask each contractor to include a price, per sheet, to replace any damaged plywood. Spec exterior grade plywood, not OSB, for any replacement. This eliminates some of the ripoff games when they have to replace a few pieces of plywood.
4. Make sure they are insured.


Another thing a lot of people do to save money is put a second shingle layer over the first. I would not even consider this. They claim it saves you money, until you have a leak and can't find it, the roof looks wavey or you have to pay more the next time you need a roof. Not to mention all of the added weight.

[Ed62]

Mike had some good advice. Be certain to get at least three estimates, and get everything in writing. Like he said, get a price on replacement plywood, or OSB (per sheet). You might not have sheet goods, but instead have one by's. If so, get a price on that too. Get it in writing too, because once they get the shingles ripped off, and they find bad wood, you're not gonna tell them the price for replacement is too high. You're gonna go with what they tell you. You can expect them to make a profit on that, but not excessive. If they find several sheets that need replacing, inspect the sheeting yourself. Ask them to show you why it needs to be replaced.

Ed
P.S. On the estimates, make sure you compare apples to apples. One contractor might include gutter apron, new vents, or other things that are not on another's estimate. You have to know what's included, and the specs on different items.

[just started]

For the initial inspection you should use someone that doesn't do repairs also, like a home inspector that checks houses for buyers, they give an honest opinion since they don't do the work.

[cabinetman]

Could very well be that once the repair folks got up there and into the job they found more damage than was apparent to the estimator just looking at the roof without tearing into it.

OTOH, the estimator said most of the roof is ok, but we'll fix this 9 sq. foot area and that is the only area that was touched, but the folks doing the job said the whole roof was shot then I'd be pretty miffed.

Also: the statements "you should replace it soon" and "you could get a couple more years out of it" are not in disagreement. Soon is relative.

I go along with this assessment. It's doubtful the suggestion to repair was done with an ulterior motive. An initial visual inspection wouldn't expose what shovels and scrapers will. Of course just doing it right the first time has it's advantages. So does saving money with repairing.
.

[iceman61]

Alex, I think you may be jumping the gun a little bit. What you have to think about is this:

The estimator is either the owner of the company or just an estimator. If he is just an estimator for the company, then he is also the salesman for the company. In either situation, either should have looked the entire roof over. Why didn't he try & sell you on an entire roof replacement now? Instead he told you there were a few more years left on your roof. Usually estimators are former roofers so he would have "almost" the same knowlege as the actual roofer doing the repair. The roofer will see what is actually going on once the roof decking is exposed but alot of the time an estimator can tell if there is bad decking just by walking on it.

Are they trying to get more money out of you later? Could be, but then again when it comes time to replace the whole roof, they will be thrown back into the mix of bidding with all the other contractors and stand a chance of another company beating them.

Right now is the seasonally slow time for roofers. It is also a slow time for just about everybody due to the economy. I'm thinking you got an honest opinion from the estimator & an opinion from a roofer that needs a paycheck. Remember the roofer is just hired help.

This is just IMHO but the again I also do between 30 to 50 roofs a year along with residentual construction. Everyone here gave you some sound advice especially the points that Hellrazer gave you. One thing I would add to Hellrazor's points is that by nailing a layer of shingles over another layer, the life expectancy of your shingles will drop by 20% to 30% due to extra heat build up. Also make sure your attic has enough ventilation.

Edit: for a condensed version just read what Cabinetman posted. LOL

[Bigbit]

On principle alone, I would not give these guys any more money, regardless of offered discount. They either messed up or are trying to take advantage of you. In either case, I'd be looking elsewhere.

I lean towards Mike's opinion. It feels like you got set up...

[billwmeyer]

2 Layers?

Quote by Hellrazor:
"Another thing a lot of people do to save money is put a second shingle layer over the first. I would not even consider this. They claim it saves you money, until you have a leak and can't find it, the roof looks wavey or you have to pay more the next time you need a roof. Not to mention all of the added weight."

Do you mean the 7 layers I took off of my roof wasn't right?

This was on top of the cedar shakes of course.
Bill

[docrowan]

In my mind this is one of the biggest problems for the average person - how to find a good roofer. I'm now 40 years old and I've only had to replace one roof on a home I've owned. I had great luck - and I mean luck - in finding an honorable, conscientious roofer. But, I've moved 3 hours away and when the house I'm in now needs a roof, I'll start from scratch. How do you get good at something you do three times in your life? I'll probably get more experience at buying a house than selecting a roofer. True, I can ask my friends and neighbors, but they almost surely have the same level of inexperience as I do.

It's a tough problem and I'll be checking with you guys for advice when the time comes.

Note: my little girl is sitting in my lap and wants to use some faces:

[430752]

Quote by Hellrazor:

Do you mean the 7 layers I took off of my roof wasn't right?

This was on top of the cedar shakes of course.
Bill

This is a joke, right? The weight would be enough to crush the house! First home I had had three layers, probably from when home was built in the 20's/30's. code only permits 2, then rip down. Still, ripping it all down and replacing a few sections of tounge and groove with plywood, then new architectural shingles wasn't bad, a one day job, and only $3,500 on a steep hip roof with 2 gabled dormers, 1 hipped dormer, and 2 hipped side roofs (one above one story attached garage and the other above one story sun room), adding cobra vents, etc. Of course, this was 2002.

[Hellrazor]

Do you mean the 7 layers I took off of my roof wasn't right?

This was on top of the cedar shakes of course.
Bill

Wow. What in the world were they thinking. If you were in snow country you would have been caved in.