Question on CFL's

[Rslaugh]

.....although the efficiency gains from fluorescents is tiny in the big picture, making anything more efficient it does give back a little capacity in the grid. That means firing up the standby plants less often and decreasing the need for more plants.

A flourescent uses about 1/4 the energy as a comparable incandescent and lasts at least 6 times longer when used in the proper application. 22% of our energy is used for lighting. If only 1/4 of those applications are ripe for cfl I think that's still quite a jump in efficiency.

[Tom Slick]

but still tiny comapred to what we use for air conditioning.

[BrianStark]

I switched my bathrooms and one ceiling fan to CFL bulbs. When they are first turned on they are very dim and brighten gradually to full less than a minute. Is this normal?

If it matters, I used the type that is encased in a globe to look more like a 'normal' bulb.

I installed CFLs in a ceiling fan in the bedroom, using the "ceiling fan bulb" style (that's what the package said...). Anyway, same problem -- bulbs come on very slowly. I am annoyed by it. I have installed CFLs almost everywhere else in the house and have noticed that some light fixtures come on slowly, but others light up rather quick. I think there is a difference in brands. Some fixtures got bulbs I picked up at HD, others got bulbs from Lowes. I am not sure which store's brand seems to come on quicker, or if the coming on slow part is due to temperature differences between rooms (this would be odd, because I really don't think I have significantly different temperatures between the rooms of my house, especially for those that are on the same level).

Brian

[rnelson0]

I believe Costco sells some GE bulbs in 10 packs, that's what I use for the regular bulbs. I haven't replaced any overheads or spotlights (most CFLs don't work on dimmers and I'm not willing to foot that extra cost). The GE ones work great.

[gjat]

If you compare the amount of mercury in a CFL with the typical amount of mercury released into the atmosphere by coal fired power plants in producing the extra energy needed by incandescent bulbs, I believe the CFLs actually come out ahead. Whether environmental health comes out ahead depends, of course, on what's downwind of the coal-fired power plants (e.g., the eastern US from midwestern plants, the western US from Chinese plants), as well as what happens to the discarded CFLs.

If you could provide any data or references regarding the comparitive mercury pollution, I would appreciate it. I'm certainly no expert and am openminded. I do know from experience, the rules, regulations, and safeguards the laws require regarding storing, handling, and properly disposing florescent lamps and ballasts having just spent thousands of dollars doing just that for a government contract. That information is easily obtainable on the 'net. I too used to break up florescent tubes with a stick over the dumpster and currently don't have lung cancer or a third eye. But it's not something I'm willing to do to myself or the environment in this day and age. It's not the immediate health concerns, it's the mercury build up in our environment. Anyone ever read up on why eating shark steaks, though delicious, isn't recommended?

[JeffG78]

I bought the Costco GE ones and hate them. The light is dim and harsh and I have had way too many fail early. I bought an 8 pack. Of those, one was dead out of the package, one died within a week, and another died last night after about 1 year. LOML made me remove them out of the kitchen because the lighting was so poor. I also tried them in the basement with the same results. A 60W incandescent bulb lights up the laundry area just fine, but the CFL didn't even come close. I have one in a torch lamp out in my unheated sun room that I pass through every time I take the dogs out at night. It works fine for light output as I only need to see well enough to walk through, but when cold, it takes a long time to provide any light.

Unless they get a lot better, I will not buy any more CFLs. My energy usage problem isn't the type of bulbs, it's LOML leaving all the lights on I follow her around and turn lights off, buy I know they all stay on whenever I'm not at home.

[dlminehart]

GJAT, take a look at this site: http://www.popularmechanics.com/blog...s/4217864.html

The relevant quote: "How much mercury do power plants emit to light a CFL?
About 50 percent of the electricity produced in the U.S. is generated by coal-fired power plants. When coal burns to produce electricity, mercury naturally contained in the coal releases into the air. In 2006, coal-fired power plants produced 1,971 billion kilowatt hours (kwh) of electricity, emitting 50.7 tons of mercury into the air—the equivalent amount of mercury contained in more than 9 billion CFLs (the bulbs emit zero mercury when in use or being handled).

Approximately 0.0234 mg of mercury—plus carbon dioxide, sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxide—releases into the air per 1 kwh of electricity that a coal-fired power plant generates. Over the 7500-hour average range of one CFL, then, a plant will emit 13.16 mg of mercury to sustain a 75-watt incandescent bulb but only 3.51 mg of mercury to sustain a 20-watt CFL (the lightning equivalent of a 75-watt traditional bulb). Even if the mercury contained in a CFL was directly released into the atmosphere, an incandescent would still contribute 4.65 more milligrams of mercury into the environment over its lifetime."

[Rslaugh]

but still tiny comapred to what we use for air conditioning.

Great Point!! CFL's contribute a lot less to the heatload of a building than incandescents so they are helping here as well. In a previous thread on this topic a couple of people came up with some significant savings on their AC after switching to CFL's.

(in the interest of fairness just want to point out that my company does sell lighting and is Philips largest distributor so I guess I can be considered biased. The reality is that lighting is less than 1% of what my office sells. We are primarily involved in industrial automation.)

[Tom Slick]

true (as you probably already know), 100w is 100w, it doesn't make much difference if it is "lighting" or "heating". if becomes very significant in a commercial application when you are converting from 400w metal hallide highbay fixtures to florescent highbay fixtures that use less then half of the wattage and you are replacing 50 fixtures.

the point of my a/c comment is that a/c is the single largest "user" of electricity on the grid. switching to CFLs is a drop in the bucket compared to some of the other appliances attached to our houses. switching to a higher seer a/c unit would make a bigger impact on your bill, but it not cheap and easy light changing a light bulb.

[91FE]

Lowes sells "instant on" CFLs... can't remember the manufacturer. I have them in my hallway and foyer fixtures. Very happy.

[pacwind3]

We moved into our new place at the first of the year. There were no fluorescent lights in the house. We heat primarily with a pellet stove. I got my first electric bill for Jan: $240. I immediately went through the house replacing bulbs with CFL's. I am not done, but I have most replaced. Our bill for March: $130. I can tell you for a fact that they work.
I have basically three kinds. First the $5 pack from Ikea. They aren't the spiral type. Not bad lights, come on pretty quick and get to full brightness pretty fast. Second, some CFL's that I've been finding locally for $1.00 each. 60 75 and 100 watt equivelents. Good bulbs, come on really quick and bright fast.
Third, some flood style to go into some recessed lights. VERY slow to come on. You flip the light switch and nothing happens for 1/2 a second or so. They take probably a minute to come up to brightness. But they are the main lights in our main hallway so I live with it. Once they are on, they are usually left on till we go to bed.
All I can say is keep at it, try different types if you don't like what you've bought. I know that's a little expensive, but I really think it's worth it in the long run.