Electrical Question

[crokett]

I need to pull some new circuits for an on-demand water heater rated at 220V/60A and a 110V/15A circuit for just stuff. The circuts will run through conduit on the outside of the building from the panel to where they are needed. Planning #6 (specced by heater mfgr) stranded unsheathed for the 220 and #14 solid unsheathed through the conduit to where it will enter the building.

Do I need separate conduit runs or can I run them both in the same, so long as it is big enough? I was thinking about pulling 80A to where I need it, then separating that out into the 2 circuits but that would drive the cost up for the extra box and fuses/breakers, no?

[TheRic]

You can run different size wires in the same conduit. I would suggest stranded instead of solid in conduit. It's a LOT easier to pull, specially if you have several 90 bends.

Not sure how much you might need in that area. If you run 80 AMP at 220V and put in a box with breakers, you can end up with a several 20 amp circuits not just one 14 amp line. The total breaker amps can go over the max of the main breaker in a box. Your normally not going to be pulling the max of each breaker at the same time. When you do the main breaker would kick in.

I personally like planning for the future. When it comes to electric think back how much electric we needed / used 10, 20, 40 yrs. Now project that into the future. I remember when 60 amp was considered enough / standard for a house.

[Crash2510]

I second the suggestion to use stranded wire on both so much easier to pull. As long as you use a big enough pipe their should be no problem with running both in the same conduit

as to your question about the 80 amp circuit If i were going to do this you might as well step it up and run #2 copper and add a small 100amp 6 or 12 circuit subpanel that would allow for some expansion for not a lot of added cost. These small panels can be had for $30-$50 dollars and breakers cost $5-20 depending on brand and whether its 240v or 120v.
The difference in pipe cost is minimal. The only real difference would be the cost of the wire, but I am not sure of your situation. THis would allow for plenty of expansion in the future.

not sure about your money situation but if your budget allows I would add the subpanel, but if it does not I would oversize my pipe one size or more to make it easier to expand in the future

definately run stranded wire

[crokett]

Ric,

I did not think about future. Thanks.

My only issue with the 80A + sub panel is cost. I know the water heater will take 54A and the 15A line is for things like a light and hair dryer, etc. This is to add a shower at a cabin. He has to pull the new circuit for the heater and says it is easier to pull a new one for lights/outlets than tear up the inside connecting those to an existing one. I think if he ever needed another circuit in this area he would just pull another from the main panel.

[TheRic]

... I think if he ever needed another circuit in this area he would just pull another from the main panel.

If you think there might be need to pull some wire later, go a size or two larger on the pipe. It will be easier to pull now (specially if you have several bends), and still give you room to pull wires in the future. When we use to put electric conduit in, we almost always went a size bigger then what was required. The extra $ was saved on the time / hassle / ears (cuss words ).

[iceman61]

I don't think he will have a problem with solid wire since the only solid wire is a #14. Be sure to stagger the ends of those wires 4" - 6" from each other when you tape them & they will be easier to pull. Also use some wire lube or hand soap & the pull will be much easier.

[Tom Slick]

If you want to go really deluxe then pull a "pull rope" with your wires through the conduit for future expansion. Later if you decide that you need anothing set of wires in the conduit you've already got the string in the conduit ready to pull the wires through.

14awg solid wire is pretty easy to pull unless you have alot of bends in the conduit, it's the #6 that will be a bear.

[rnelson0]

I second the suggestion to use stranded wire on both so much easier to pull.

I'll send this. I didn't have a lot of 90's in my garage, but solid was **** to pull, even through a soft 90 (made with the pipe bender). Of course, if your conduit has lots of spare room in it - mine didn't - then you probably won't have as much of a problem.

"pull rope"

I would suggest a pull *string* I know it's mostly a semantic difference, but some places do sell pull ropes that are fairly thick. Pull string is braided but very thin and flexible...and I bought something insane like 3000' ft in a bucket for $12. Don't think I'll ever need another bucket, even if I live to be 100.

[Tom Slick]

I would suggest a pull *string* I know it's mostly a semantic difference, but some places do sell pull ropes that are fairly thick. Pull string is braided but very thin and flexible...and I bought something insane like 3000' ft in a bucket for $12. Don't think I'll ever need another bucket, even if I live to be 100.

semantically we are both wrong, it is referred to as "pull line" by its manufacturers.

[Hellrazor]

I would run a subpanel, use THWN and go from there. It is always cheaper to oversize your electric run, then replace it later.