Attic as Storage

[jseklund]

I know someone here will have an answer for me on this, thank god for this forum. A few months ago I moved into a house that I renovated. It is a cape-style home with a small attic (you can't stand up in it). There are some 2 ft. X 4 ft. cuts of plywood up, just free floating. I would like to use this space for storage, but have a few questions.

While I was running wiring up there during the renovation, I noticed the joists would twist slightly if I put a lot of weight on them (I'm 250 lbs.)- barely noticable, but with enough sideways force, as in leaning and not standing straight up and down on them, I would feel them flex a little. Because of this, I am hesitant to put too much up there and use it as storage space. I'm not looking to pack it to the ceiling, but I figure I could probably move 500-1,000 pounds up there easily, maybe more. Storage has a way of getting used, right? I have christmas decorations, some rubbermade crates, etc. that would be great to get out of the rooms (not to mention freeing up some shop space in the basement).

Anyway, my thought was to cut some more strips of plywood and basically lay out a 8 X 20 ft. area. My thought was that it might not be a bad idea to bridge the joists with 2X4's in some kind of staggered pattern under the plywood. I would then screw the plywood down with drywall screws to the joists. I figure 1 1/4" drywall screws will hold down the plywood, be easy enough to remove, etc. It's not like I'm looking to lay flooring on top of it, so it can come lose/squeek a little.

My question is- how would you go about doing this? If bridging is used, how would you lay it out? Any tricks in cutting the bridges to size, since some spacing is 14 1/4", 15 3/4", etc?

Any experience/thoughts/advice would be very helpful.

Hope everyone is having a great Easter weekend.

[jonmulzer]

First thing, look at the opening you are going to have to go through. Most of the time they are 2'x2'. Rip some sheets of plywood right down the center to get them up there. Easy enough. As far as the joists bending slightly, they will. As long as they are not sagging a ton with 250lbs on the space of a footprint, you should be alright. Keep in mind that xmas stuff and other things you are likely to put up there are going to be pretty light and spread out over a lot larger area. I would not worry about the bridging if it were me, your plywood will take care of that.. Just lay some 7/16's OSB perpendicular to the joists and call it a day. Before you do that though, you may want to look into re-insulating the area if needed. It is a lot easier to do now and at this time of year as opposed to after the plywood is down, in the dead of summer. You can never have too much insulation in an attic and that is where most of your heat escapes at in most homes.

You might also consider a basic respirator when working up there. It is really untelling what might be lurking in an older home in the dust. Better to be safe than lying sick in a hospital after coming down with some strange infection lurking in mouse droppings or whatever else.

[JimD]

I have attic storage in our current home and also had it in our previous home. I put it in myself both times. The first time, in Pennsylvania, the attic was trusses and I made an additional member in the trusses so I could get a foot of insulation under the floor of the storage area. The center of the storage area was over the hallway so the trusses had extra support in this area. That helped to minimize deflection.

In our current house, the framing is 2x6s. I sistered another 2x6 on top to get nearly a foot for insulation. The floor is 7/16 waferboard. If deflects some but does not break. The double 2x6s are plenty strong and do not deflect noticably.

If you get enough insulation (I like a foot) under the floor of the storage space, you will probably also have enough strength.

3/4 material will deflect noticably less in the floor.

I would put in pull down stairs before I put in the floor. You need a way to get stuff up and down. I put them in my last house and the builder put them in this one. I box them in to the depth of the insulation and then put an insulated door on top - to minimize loss of insulation.

Jim

[jseklund]

John and Jim, thanks for the input...great advice.

I spent a good amount of time in the attic this summer, and a respirator was absolutely necessary when I started, there was so much dust in the air I could barely breath without it. I had the same fears of mouse droppings, etc. too. Since then I have pulled up most of the insulation twice and put it back down. I did this because it just made it easier when running wires, installing ceiling fans, installing light boxes, etc. I had to run all new cable wire, and rewire a lot of electrical that wasn't placed properly (run over the joists for instance), as well as run ethernet (which I thought I'd do while I was running the cable wire). In doing this, I kicked up a ton of dust, but the attic is actually pretty well ventilated and it is WAY better now. Eventually, I want to get a couple of attic fans just to keep air moving through there.

Also- you are right on the 2X2 door. I am thinking of grabbing a piece of that pink styrofoam type insulation, sandwiching that between two pieces of plywood or something, and replacing the 1/2" plywood door that is there. I have a feeling a lot of head is lost through that little hole.


Jim- a foot of insulation? It's funny, because where the plywood is down, there's about 6" of insulation. However, someone came in at some point in time and laid a second layer of insulation everywhere else, running perpendicular to the joists. A lot of this is directly over my bedroom- which is almost always warm. I am having trouble picturing how you "sistered" a 2X6 on top of another 2X6 and kept it sturdy though? Seems difficult.

As far as the stairs, you are 100% correct. I need to do that, but that will probably be about a year down the road. It would make things much more convenient, as it is right now I have to grab my ladder everytime. The only ladder I have is a multi-function little giant knock-off that weighs about 45 pounds. It's not that difficult, but it's annoying. I just dont' have the $$ or the time at the moment for the stairs. The $60 for the plywood is barely in my budget

Thanks again for the advice guys!

[rjwaldren]

This was my first project when we moved in a year ago. 12x16 space over the garage. I put cross members between the trusses at 24" spacing and covered with 7/16 OSB. If you have triangular shaped trusses you can easily add shelving too. Every holiday, teaching supplies, camping supplies, baby furniture stores nicely - just get a bunch of stackable rubber maid containers on sale.

One thing I definitely recommend is lighting and a good attic ladder if there is not one already. I pickup a Werner wooden ladder for ~75.00 at HD, but they have heavier duty too.

[jonmulzer]

The lighting is a great idea also, and from your former posts, you already have the wiring up there. You could couple onto that and put a couple of cheap surface mount incandescents and make it a ton easier to see and move around up there.

Topping off your joists with another run of 2x6's would be fairly easy. I assume your house is rafters? Just cut the ends to continue out the joists that are there and if you have a Kreg jig you could shoot a couple of pocket screws in along the length also. If not, you could toenail it in. It does not have to be pretty. It will be covered with insulation and plywood.

P.S. Have them rip your plywood down the middle when you buy it. It is a lot easier for them to do it on the panel saw before you leave than to do it at home and it should not cost any extra.

[eccentrictinkerer]

I just installed an attic ladder for a customer. I used a kit from Lowes that has aluminum rails. I can highly recommend it.

Previously, I'd always used the standard wooden stair kit. For a few $$ more you get a REALLY sturdy staircase IMHO.

[messmaker]

I just installed an attic ladder for a customer. I used a kit from Lowes that has aluminum rails. I can highly recommend it.

Previously, I'd always used the standard wooden stair kit. For a few $$ more you get a REALLY sturdy staircase IMHO.

I think that is the one I have. It was a Werner from lowe's and it is very well designed. Way stronger than the old wooden style.

[Uncle Cracker]

Love those new aluminum stairs...

As for the twisting joists, if you tack down the OSB, or whatever else you're using for flooring, at 6" intervals, you'll be surprised how much more stable it will make things.

When loading, spread the weight out, rather than stacking in one spot. If you have drywall ceilings, look for new nail pops. That is a sign of possible overloading.

[jseklund]

Happy Easter to everyone, and thank you again for the responses. You all have me jonesing for the aluminum stairs now....and some nice strip lights, etc....I may be able to swing an extra $75- but I wouldn't be able to pay someone to cut the ceiling, frame it all in, trim it up to look right, etc.- so I'd have to do it myself. The framing...ummm....I've never done, and I have a little fear of cutting the joists to box it in. I just picture myself doing this wrong and the joist coming through the ceiling the length of the house, haha. Not to mention, I don't have much time for this....

Lights wouldn't be too difficult- and it would sure beat taking the halogen up on an extension cord everytime....

The only thing I'm having truble picturing is the stacking of (2) 2X6's. If I stack one one top of the other (1.5" side to the 1.5" side), even with pocket hole screws, I just picture the resulting joint being very flimsy and weak. Or would you run them perpendicular to the joists that are there? I'm sorry if I'm sounding dumb on this one...some reason I'm having a bit of a problem picturing...

[jonmulzer]

You should not have to cut the joists to install the ladder. They are usually set up to fit in between. All you would have to do is enlarge the hole in the ceiling. Scabbing a 2x6 on to the top of your existing joists would be at least as strong as the ones you already have in place, if you do it the same as the ones that are in there now. Then with some pocket screws or toenailed to tie the two together it will really stiffen up. Just make sure it is tied into the rafters also.

[iceman61]

There is no need to have fear of cutting the joists to frame the box in. Just mark out your layout on top of the joists, then take a couple of scrap 2x's and lay them across the top the joists on the outside of your marks & screw them into the joists. Just make sure your temp 2x's run across 2 joists on each side that you are not cutting. Take them out after you get your framing done. I hope this makes sense to you.

[kramer katt]

jseklund
If you have deflection in the 2x4 ceiling joists, stacking another 2x4 or 2x6 on top will not give any more strength. It only give some extra depth to place the insulation batts. If you still want to do this attach the two stacked 2x's with a small piece of 1/2 or 3/8 plywood on the sides.
To give the attic floor more strength, you need to sister a new rafter along side the old one that is of one or two sizes larger. Proper size will depend on how long the spans between supports are underneath.
While it is true that most attics attract lighter boxes like christmas decorations it is actually very easy to overload a storage room like this with weights that would deflect even a properly designed house floor. Code required dead loads for storage areas are higher than for living areas. While you may not be taking much up there now with the 2 x 2 hatch and portable ladder if you later put in a pull down stairs the temptation will be to fill up the space.
I would suggest you get a qualified person to at least look at the attic and give you some advice. I can see that a structural engineer would be outside your budget but maybe you could get a local contractor/framer to do it as a favor or trade for some work.

[iceman61]

jseklund
I can see that a structural engineer would be outside your budget but maybe you could get a local contractor/framer to do it as a favor or trade for some work.

We have a larger local lumber company that has a structural engineer on staff that helps anyone out that needs material info free of charge. It's part of his job description. Usually he will tell you several ways to reach the idea that you have. Give some of the larger lumber companies in your area a call to see if they have one on duty. He will need to know the details of what you have now. (area size, location of walls on floor below, current joist size & spacing, etc...)

[rnelson0]

I wouldn't worry too much about the weight if you put down some plywood or even particleboard sheets. When we were selling our house, we needed to stage it. This entailed taking basically half of our house and shoving it in the attic. I can attest that there was at least a ton (literally) in books, furniture, holiday items, excess kitchen items, decorations, etc. It gets spread out and it won't apply nearly any torque, as opposed to your feet creeping across the supports.

Obviously, take into consideration the size of your area, any damage, and overall quality of wood and construction, but I would be surprised if you couldn't throw all that stuff up there without a problem.