Plumbing- can you install a trap in the basement?

[BigguyZ]

OK, I'm helping my brother out with a plumbing issue on a new house of his. It's an old house, and it has it's quirks. One of those quirks is that the plubing for the bathtub is such that there is no trap where the tub connects to the drain pipe.

We can add a trap, but it'd extend past the current ceiling below the tub (it's on the second floor), so we'd have to build a really obtrusive valance to hide it.

Another thought I had, was to see if we can install a trap in the basement were the drain pipe meets the larger main drain pipe.

I figure as long as there's a trap somewhere in the system, it'll prevent sewer gasses from being vented into the house.

What do you guys think? I'm not so concerned about what's code, bu what will work.

Thanks!

UPDATE:
Here are some pics to give you all an idea of what I'm working with. Thanks for all of your help!

[Ed62]

[QUOTE=BigguyZ;324149]

I figure as long as there's a trap somewhere in the system, it'll prevent sewer gasses from being vented into the house.

QUOTE]
As far as I know, that's the only thing you have to worry about. It should work just fine.

Ed

[eccentrictinkerer]

Is the reason for no trap because the waste line is lower than the tub outlet?

Do you you have a picture or a sketch of the current setup?

Traps at the tub are required by code for a lot of very good reasons.

Park Supply over on 26th Street have a lot plumbing parts for problem situations.

They've helped me a lot in my handyman tough spots.

Good luck.

J.D.

[lakkdainen]

My house was built in 1949, and I'm unsure if this setup meets current codes.

With that in mind, there is a living area above the garage, part of which is a bathroom. The garage has a drywalled ceiling, and the trap for the bathtub is visible below. Sounds exactly like what you want to do.

I can take a pic if you'd like; let me know.

Edit - Just realized your issue. Sounds like you have a straight shot vertically down through an entire story of the house before you reach the proposed location for a trap. Would that work - definitely. Is it to code? No idea.

[reddog552]

trap

I dont think a trap in the celler will work. Just think of the water speed. Im thinking it would ouershoot the trap.

[BigguyZ]

Is the reason for no trap because the waste line is lower than the tub outlet?

Do you you have a picture or a sketch of the current setup?

Traps at the tub are required by code for a lot of very good reasons.

Park Supply over on 26th Street have a lot plumbing parts for problem situations.

They've helped me a lot in my handyman tough spots.

Good luck.

J.D.

I can get a picture of it tomorrow, or at least do a sketch of it later on. But yeah, the waste line is lower than the sink outlet and it's just above the level of the drywall ceiling for the kitchen below.

Reddog, that's not a bad thought about the water "overshooting" the trap in the basement. But what if the trap was elongated so it would catch the water better?

[Uncle Cracker]

One other drawback for that much distance is that, although you will not get sewer gases, there is a substantial run of pipe that might get a film of scum or bacteria from hair and slough skin, and this film can develop an odor. You may want to run a bottle of bleach down with the bathwater every so often.

[Rslaugh]

Besides not having a trap you obviously aren't close to a vent line either. If the trap you install is not vented properly it could end up sucking all of the water out of the trap anyway.

It would be difficult to really clean a long vertical drop before the trap with bleach unless you poured a lot down at once. Let's say you poured a quart of bleach into the tub. Assuming you have a 2" drain line that quart is probably not going to go down in one big slug washing the entire pipe wall. It's probably going to tend to one side or the other or splash around but even if it did go down in a slug think about how much surface area there is. Imagine slicing the pipe in half and opening it up flat. Pour that quart of bleach onto the flat surface. How thick would the coverage be? And that's in a flat and static situation not bouncing off the walls in a vertical situation.

The codes were dreamed up for a reason. I'd try and stick to them. The potential health issues aren't worth it.

[JimD]

I do not understand why a trap in the proper location, directly under the tub drain, would show. There has to be floor joists. There should be plenty of depth to hide a trap. You can either take out a little floor for access and then put it back or you can take off the ceiling below and put it back.

Jim

[Rslaugh]

I do not understand why a trap in the proper location, directly under the tub drain, would show. There has to be floor joists. There should be plenty of depth to hide a trap. You can either take out a little floor for access and then put it back or you can take off the ceiling below and put it back.

Jim

That's what I was thinking too jim. Need to see pics.

[Tom Slick]

If you have a vent before the trap then you'll get a draft through your drain pipes for the same reasons you'd get sewer gas with no trap.

[BigguyZ]

The reason you can't put a trap in w/o going lower than the ceiling is that the waste pipe is just above the level of the ceiling. So if the trap dips below the level of the waste pipe, as traps do, then if would dip below the level of the the ceiling.

I'm heading over there tonight, so I'll bring my camera or take a few pics with my phone.

Anyways, here's the deal. The house is 80 years old, or somewhere abouts. People have liven in there without getting sick or dying from no trap, so if I get some kind of trap, I think it'll be OK. Sure, it may be a far cry from ideal, but with old houses nothing ever is.

Also, this is a rental property and as such, cost and time are always an issue. I don't want there to be any issues that could potentially be an issue for the tenants, but we can't afford to rip out all of the ceiling and re-plumb the entire run. We have to find an economical and effective way to solve the issue.

Thanks for the help, I'll try to get the pics up tonight when I get back from working on it!

[Uncle Cracker]

It would be difficult to really clean a long vertical drop before the trap with bleach unless you poured a lot down at once.

Actually, it works pretty well. My BIL has a very similar situation with a sunken shower on the second floor, and a trap in the basement. Once a month, he blocks the drain and runs about 10 gallons of water, into which he pours a gallon of cheap bleach, then unplugs the drain. Before he started doing this, it stunk the whole bathroom up. After, not a whiff...

[annunaki]

Trap

My first house in Floral Park NY was built in the 1920's, had a basement and all houses then had a "Main House Trap" just before leaving the foundation wall going out to the street sewer.
These prevented gases and rats. Localized traps, prevent odors from the rest of the system before the main trap. Check a good plumbing and pay special attention to the section on "re-vents".

[JimD]

This is kind of obvious so please do not take offense but the distance between the tub outlet and the trap vertically is not critical. If there is no vertical space for a trap either the joists are very small or there is a pipe coming out of the drain that is kind of long. A different plug could help. The slider type requires some vertical space (this type has a lever on the overflow). It also gets disconnected sometimes. I put a simple plug type in the last tub I put in. It would not require vertical space so it might help squeeze things in. I would also check some plumbing books about how to hook up the vent. Sometimes that comes out of the vertical outflow but I am not sure that is the only way to do it.

Jim