Flip this house!

**BigguyZ** · 07-20-2007, 12:20 PM

Just my $0.02. For floor finishing, if you shop around you may be able to find a professional to do it for only slightly more than DIY. My brother and I have a guy who charges only $1.50/ sq ft. And the results are fantastic. It's hard to beat that...

**cgallery** · 07-20-2007, 12:27 PM

First rule of flipping: Don't make changes that won't pay off. The cost to replace the carpeting w/ hardwood to match other floors will be considerable. If the carpet is old and tired, I'd replace w/ new carpet.

And before anyone even asks, it is nearly impossible to get an engineered wood floor to look right next to a conventional (T&G) flooring job. That is why I would stick w/ carpeting.

**mschrank** · 07-20-2007, 01:37 PM

Originally posted by jseklund

OK, I'm actually somewhat ashamed to admit it, but I've bought a fixer-upper. I got a good deal and I'm hoping I don't wind up looking like a jerk for trying to fix it up

Why be ashamed? I applaud your ambition and wish you luck!

I just went through a remodel. Some of the work I had done (drywall, hardwood floor install) and most I did (demo, framing, plumbing, cabinetry, trim).

I don't presume to know much about flipping a house, but based on some numbers I recently ran across, it seems that kitchens, hardwood floors, and decks are always near the top of the list for ROI. So looks like you're focusing on the right things.

1. Hardwood flooring- The hardwood floors that are there need to be refinished. They also are not quite level in some spots. My question is- does anyone know a good place to get a good overview of how to refinish, and maybe some ideas on what NOT to do? It seems like I need to rent a sander, sand them down, and then use an edge sander to get near the base boards (which I will be removing to paint I think). Then you "just" put the finish on. I know it's more complex- but roughly.

Google is your friend on this one. Just make sure you check out quite a few sites. Once you've seen 1/2 dozen or so descriptions, you'll get a feel for what's good info.

2. I will be lifting a carpet and putting hardwood down in one more room. Is there anything I should do to make sure it matches with the wood that is in the adjoining room? I was thinking of getting the same wood (oak), measuring the planks that are their to get the same width, and getting unfinished so I could finish all at once. Will this do the trick? Is there an easier or better way?

I don't have any direct experience with this, but it sounds good to me. Oak is readily available and good deals can be had if you look hard enough. I shied away from buying flooring online.

3. Kitchen cabinets. I don't know where to begin here. I need to replace the cabinets as inexpensively as possible. Standard, light colored, wood cabinets would be great- and I don't mind learning to hang them myself if it's worth it. Any ideas on how to buy them? Are they difficult to install yourself? I think the tough part looks to be making sure they're all level when you put down the bottoms?

Once you start looking, you'll realize you have a lot of choices here beyond what you get off the shelf at HD/Lowes. Somewhere I've compiled a list of cabinet makers...If I can find that I'll send it to you. Hanging them yourself is doable. Make sure you have a helper, plenty of time, and plenty of shims. Again, Google for instructions and tips.

4. Trim work- I want to put up a chair rail in one room. I'm also thinking of taking all the baseboards off the wall to paint them white. I figure I'd spend time taping everything, and then have to work slowly cutting in around the trim, and slowly painting the trim. My thought is to spend the time carefully removing it, paint the walls faster, paint the trim faster, and have it look nicer in the end. What do you think?

I like to finish trim before attaching it, but I've only done that when putting up new. To do the job right, you'll want to caulk the gaps between trim and wall and then paint the caulk line, so if I were in your shoes, I'd be inclined to leave it in place and paint it. It doesn't take too many windows and doors to get good at cutting in and doing away with masking tape. A steady hand and a damp rag are all that's needed.

It'll probably be awhile and lots of frustration before you're ready to worry about finishing the trim. I started my remodel in January and the trim is still neatly stacked in my garage as rough cut alder planks

Any handy advice is much appreciated, as always. You guys have always been there when I needed info and I can't thank you enough. I look forward to your thoughts....

It's going to take longer than you think...multiply best case by 3.

There's also a current thread going about how one thing leads to ten and explains this phenomenon.

And it'll cost more than you thought. All those little $45-$120 trips to the hardware store add up and are hard to account for up front.

Have fun, stay safe, and good luck!

**jseklund** · 07-20-2007, 02:04 PM

Bigguyz- If I could find someone to do it for me for $1.50- that would be SWEET! Best I have so far is $2.50. I would love to learn how to do it too- but time is money. At $2.50 I'm almost wondering if it'd be possible to buy pre-finished planks for just a little more and put them down and then not have to match anything- just all new. At $1.50 I'd jump on it.

CGallery- I agree with the hardwood/carpeting advice. Actually - the only reason I'm doing it is because the house has kind of a funky layout. It looks like it used to be 2 beds on the first floor and an unfinished upstairs. They then finished the upstairs and left the 2 beds downstairs. There's no dining room. As it is it is a 4, possibly 5 bedroom house. I am going to use that second bed downstairs and make it a dining room. Hardwood flooring seems to make sense instead of carpeting. I'm also thinking of opening up a wall between that room and the living room/front door to make it more like a standard cape....but that's something I am going back and forth on....

Also- are you saying that there's no way to make the old flooring match up with anything I could buy nowadays? Or to just get a T&G flooring and then finish it with the wood floors? Also- can you telll me, since you seem to have experience, what the real difference between the grades of HW flooring are? Thanks!

mschrank- I am only partially ashamed

I say this because I know everyone and their brother wants to flip a house. We see it on TV and get excited. I just don't want to come out looking as amateurish as the people on TV

I agree with you too- I don't know everything, but Google sure seems to. You may have talked me into leaving the trim work on too. Maybe my thought was something that seemed like a good idea at the time, haha. It would suck to put it back and have a gap to caulk and have to repaint essentially.

Thanks for the help guys, I'm gonna need it. I'm sure I'm in over my head, but sometimes that's the only way to learn how to swim, right?

**TheRic** · 07-20-2007, 02:11 PM

You might have hardwood under the carpet. Check first.

I think mschrank made a typo .." multiply best case by 3" I think it should be worst case, not best case. Projects that you have only done a few times, or not at all always take way longer then you thought. Maybe you don't have the right tool so you make do with what you have, or you need to go get something, you stop to think about how to do something here and there, etc it all adds up.

If you are truly going to flip this house then I would do some research on where to invest the money and time. There are websites (goggle them) that show you how much return on your investment you will see broken down room to room. One room might only get a 10% return, while another room might get more than 70%.

Keep a list handy of things that you will need to buy the next time you go to the store. Don't try and remember, you WILL forget something. Don't waste your time running to the store for every little bolt, and nut you need, make the trip worth your time. If you can't finish up until you get that one special thing, leave it and move onto another project, there will be plenty. Make a note to get back to that item.

Keep a list of things that need to be done, you WILL find more. As you are working on various projects. Every so often priortize the list.

Plan what you are going to work on in advance, and think about what items you will need. As you think of things that you need to get for that project, add it to the list then, not later. Might want to consider keeping several list, for different stores that are not in the direction you are going.

**ragswl4** · 07-20-2007, 03:24 PM

Just a quick thought on the financial end of things. Start a journal right now. Keep track of every penny that you spend and receipts for everything. This will be your friend if and when you do sell it for establishing the base value of the house. Think TAXES and minimizing those.

I am not sure if you can add your time at a resonable rate as a cost or not. We have begun the planning of building a home and keeping up with what we are spending is a chore at best. It's a good idea to get into the habit of this early on before it becomes overwhelming at the end and you lose $$$$.

**Greg.B** · 07-20-2007, 03:44 PM

I agree it will be hard to get an exact match for the flooring. You should either put down a new carpet but first check to see what is under the carpet. It could be the same wood that is in the other room. Not uncommon on older houses. In that case you could pull that rug and sand that as well.

I personally would spend the $2.50 to get the floor done. Your time and skills would be better doing something that is not so complicated. Plus you may run into issues if the floor is not even. I would leave that to the pro's.

The kitchen is a matter of measuing and designing and buying some cabinets. Much more ideal job to take on verse refinishing hardwood floors.

**scorrpio** · 07-20-2007, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by jseklund

OK, I'm actually somewhat ashamed to admit it, but I've bought a fixer-upper. I got a good deal and I'm hoping I don't wind up looking like a jerk for trying to fix it up.

I totally hope you make out on this house, but in the short time you have it, you REALLY gotta bump up its price. Real estate market is somewhat in slump due to rising interest rates, selling is hard. To the cost of your house, you'll need to add the closing costs, the property tax and the interest you'll pay on the mortgage (if you took one) during this period. From the sale price of the house, you'll need to subtract real estate commissions, and a few things besides. (I examined the closing papers of the house I bought 2 years ago - on a ~400k sale, the seller was about 25k short once all the fees and commisisons were accounted for). Did you get the house properly inspected? You might have expenses fixing anything that buyer's inspector finds wrong. With above in mind, again, best of luck.

1. Hardwood flooring
Depending on its condition, you either need a drum sander + edger which can REALLY dig trenches in the floor if you are not carefult with them - or you can do with a regular square pad sander if only a light sanding is needed. In general, if floor is old and was finished many times, a drum sander is inevitable. Going with progressively finer grits, and a careful vacuuming/wiping. Then, 3-4 coats of finish. I'll tell you, a **** job.

2. I will be lifting a carpet and putting hardwood down in one more room.
I'll echo others - better replace with new carpet. Even if you have hardwood there, carpeting contractors don't go to gently on the floor. It'll have nails in places to eliminate squeks and nail holes from carpet barbs along perimeter.

3. Kitchen cabinets. I don't know where to begin here.
Here's an idea - sometimes replacing just doors/drawer fronts can totally revitalize the looks of it.

4. Trim work
You gotta put caulk between trim and wall - and unless trim is white, you'll want paintable caulk, Good idea is to paint walls, give trim a couple coats of paint, nail it, caulk it, and then give trim another coat, also painting the caulk.

**jseklund** · 07-20-2007, 04:15 PM

Thanks again for all the input guys, I'm finding this very helpful! I have been meaning to pull that carpet up and see what's under it. Your input here has been a big help.

Also, I think I should have stated- I am a licensed Realtor in MA. Not that that really means much, because a lot of us don't know half of what you think we should.

Keep the advice coming guys, I appreciate it!

**mschrank** · 07-20-2007, 04:59 PM

A couple more points I just thought of:

Make sure you obtain all necessary permits (building, electrical etc). As a realtor, you know that this is especially important if you will be selling it after renovation.

I hate to bring this up, but you might want to make sure you don't need a contractor's license. Some areas require one for folks who flip houses.

**Hellrazor** · 07-20-2007, 05:50 PM

1. Flooring. Have a professional sand it. I refinish gym floors at work, we rotate and do one per year. You couldn't pay me to drum sand as a DIY project, let alone for a gym floor. I just completed a 70' x 100' gym on thursday. I would NOT use a water based poly.. I am less than happy with the quality and durability.

For the poly gurus, we use Valspar WP-14 for our gyms. VOC of 275 and 57% solids. I'd love to do the house floors with that... it looks like glass. Its a one coat process too. The older products were all 2 coats.

2. Matching new to old flooring could be a problem. You will have to be the judge, jury and executioner. A few notes while the plywood is bare. Make sure the floor does not squeak and is fastened correctly or you will regret it for the rest of your life. Make sure you put a barrier between the plywood and the flooring.

3. I don't like cabinets.. so no comments

**TheRic** · 07-20-2007, 11:33 PM

For the wood flooring section, instead of trying to match something (if still taking that route) go with something different. It will look more like it was intended that way then doing a lousy job of matching.

I like the idea of new doors on the cupboards vs replacing. A heck of a lot faster. Can probably get something that looks a lot nicer than a cheap set of cabinets, for less money.

As you probably already know paint does cover a multitude of sins.

Most buyers do not look THAT close when they buy a home, they are in it about 20 minutes. They are looking at the rooms: size, location to each other, number, etc. A little gap in the baseboard corners here and there will probably be totally missed. Same with other small / minor details.

Don't try to plan on what each room will be used for. The new owner will have different views then yours. When we went house shopping 5 years ago, we visited about 20 homes over 8 months. The very first thing we did after we got done looking at the house was to tear it down and rebuild it to how WE wanted it to be.

Just some random thoughts.

**siliconbauhaus** · 07-21-2007, 02:09 PM

Have you considered laminate flooring? You can get it under $1 SF and you wont have the matching issue.

Paint and replace the hardware in the kitchen or look at the lower end ikea stuff.

Trim is as everyone else suggested.

**Jan** · 07-21-2007, 06:05 PM

If you're going to try the floors yourself see if you can find a place that rents the U-Sand machine or the EZV Varathane machine. Both use ROS technology to do the job. They're slower than drum sanders but much less likely to damage the floors. Try the forum at hardwoodinstaller.com. The forum is devoted to helping DIYs with wood flooring projects.

For the kitchen design and craftsmanship are the most important factors. Since the white "country kitchen" is popular you can source ready to assemble(RTA) cabinets from inexpensive sources like IKEA. Start buying kitchen magazines from Better Homes and Gardens and similar publishers for design ideas. Since you're a Realtor you get to see a lot of homes. Keep your eye out for crisp inexpensive remodels that you can adapt. If the crafsmanship impresses you ask for the contractors name.

If your existing kitchen layout is good consider buying replacement doors and drawer fronts. As mentioned above that's a much less expensive route.
Again craftsmanship is of the utmost importance. I've seen way too many expensive kitchens degraded by crooked doors and misaligned drawer fronts. It only takes a little extra time to get it spot on. I would use only concealed hinges as the old fashioned exposed hinges are much harder to get right.

If the house has the old cheap flush doors look into replacing them with hollow core prehungs. The six panel style is very popular and often on sale at HD and Lowes. After your first one or two doors you'll find that prehungs aren't really that hard to install. Doors are big enough to catch the eye so a couple of inexpensive prehungs can really dress up an otherwise plain room.

Good Luck

Jan

Flip this house!

Flip this house!

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