Black flakes in water

[spagington]

My wife has noticed that our sinks and baths have black flakes scattered in
them lately. The flakes rnage in size from a grain of sand to maybe 2mm per
side. I have also noticed over the past several months that our glasses are
not getting very clean in the dishwasher.

Are these flakes from my softener? If so, how would I go about fixing this
problem?

Thanks,
Scott

[jAngiel]

Are they kind of oily? By that I mean if you try to use a finger tip to pick them up do they smear?

This is what I have in my master bath tub, and only in the tub. I am still trying to figure out what it is. I just figured it was the valves or something in the faucet that was going out.

[thiggy]

If you have galvanized iron plumbing it could be rust.

[whitecobra]

It is called Bio film and exists in all water supplies
In your case it is finally falling off in a size that matters
There is no way to get rid of it short of filtering the end water delivery (sink based water filter)
You can filter the water coming IN the house but the pipes will still have the film

It is NOT harmful but it is gross

In heath care we have been dealing with it for years. Your dentist your in office surgeon etc have had to put special cleaning systems in line to control this crud

The biggest pain in the six is that it ABSOLUTELY will clog up the fine holes on the kitchen aerator head on the sink AND the ice maker in the freezer. Other then that it is benign

Dr Dave

[spagington]

Thanks for the information so far.

To answer the specific questions, the flakes are not oily. They are actually very dry and flaky. My pipes are PVC and copper. No iron that I am aware of.

Also, I forgot to mention that I am on a well with a Culligan water softener if that makes a difference.

Dr. Dave, your response is very interesting--though my wife will not like it one bit .

Thanks,
Scott

[TheRic]

I thinking it might be rust, from iron pipes in your house, or from the city. City is out, so is your house, but the casing in your well might be iron. I would think that the water softener would clean it up.

Can you get water from your well without going thru the house plumbing?? At least it will help narrow down where it's coming from.

Are the black flakes in the toilet water?? Many houses don't have the toilet going thru the water softener, to expensive.

If it's appearing after the water softener, then it might be the water softener. Is the water softener working / cycling like it's suppose to??

[spagington]

Thanks for the thoughts TheRic. There is a valve I can open and a cap to remove in order to bypass the house plumbing. I have not noticed the flakes in the toilet, but I am not sure if the toilets bypass the softener or not. I'll take a look at the water out of the bypass this weekend.

I am not confident that the softener is working correctly. For a long time I was using a lot of salt (having to add a bag a week and sometime that was not enough). Lately, it has been doing a lot better on salt usage, but our dishes have a film on them like they are being washed with hard water. So, I suspect the water softener, but I don't know enough about softeners to know what to look for.

Thanks,
Scott

[TheRic]

There is VERY HARD water in this area, it's sometime off the scales. I have NEVER gone thru that much salt. You might have your water softener set high, or it's cycling too often, using a lot of water, etc.

Once you get everything figured out and working correctly, you might want to check your water for hardness before and AFTER. After you get past a certain point in softening your water, you are just throwing away your money.

You want your water to be somewhat hard, it's the hard water that gets the soap off of you, out of your clothes, off your dishes, etc. If you have too soft of water you will see scum building up in your shower, sink, on items, etc. The film you are seeing sounds like your water is softened too much, but you are going thru less salt?

[ivwshane]

You want your water to be somewhat hard, it's the hard water that gets the soap off of you, out of your clothes, off your dishes, etc. If you have too soft of water you will see scum building up in your shower, sink, on items, etc. The film you are seeing sounds like your water is softened too much, but you are going thru less salt?

A little off topic. Are you saying that the film build up is because the water is too soft? I thought it was the opposite?

If thats the case then that explains a lot at my house

[Cheeky]

My wife has noticed that our sinks and baths have black flakes scattered in
them lately. The flakes rnage in size from a grain of sand to maybe 2mm per
side. I have also noticed over the past several months that our glasses are
not getting very clean in the dishwasher.

Are these flakes from my softener? If so, how would I go about fixing this
problem?

Thanks,
Scott

get your water checked. about 7 weeks ago we had our water softener replaced with a water sanitizer, and if i remember correctly, the gentleman testing the water said black flakes indicate manganese....which can be very toxic. there was no manganese in our water, but he went through every possible scenario.

[TheRic]

OK, I wasn't clear, hard water will leave scum, film, etc. If the water is VERY softened it will not be able to get all the soap out /off, thus leaving a scum, film, etc.

spaginton was talking about going thru a bag of salt a week, that seems like a lot of salt. I am assuming 50lb bags, normal water use, normal hardness for the US. I don't know where he is from, or the hardness in his area. I know some people who set their water softener as high as it will go, thinking if soft water is good, then even more softened water is better!!

Minerals in your water in the proper concentrations is not a bad thing. Minerals in your water out of proportions is not good and could be toxic. Having well water, it is a good idea to have your water tested for proper levels of minerals and bacterial on a regular basis. Having your water tested at various locations (well head, after water softener, drinking water tap, etc) can also help spot potential problems.

[JSCOOK]

ANyone with a Reverse Osmosis water filtering unit will be familiar with see this smeared all over the first stage sediment filter and the water line leading up to the RO unit ... first time I saw it, I was glad that we'd switched to using only RO water for drinking ...

Buy a whole house filtering unit like GE's will remove this from your water supply into the rest of your house.

[Cheeky]

I am not confident that the softener is working correctly. For a long time I was using a lot of salt (having to add a bag a week and sometime that was not enough). Lately, it has been doing a lot better on salt usage, but our dishes have a film on them like they are being washed with hard water. So, I suspect the water softener, but I don't know enough about softeners to know what to look for.

Thanks,
Scott

I was in the same boat a couple months ago. We had to add a bag a week, sometimes every 6 days, with guests (this went on for years until I decided to act). The water exuded this noxious smell, and slime was present in the toilet tanks. It turns-out our 15 year old water softener wasn't expelling the iron bacteria on the backwash, so it was residing in the water supply. With the new water sanitizer, we add salt every 3.5-4 weeks.

Call the water treatment companies, their visit is free and you can get multiple viewpoints, then go from there. If you do that, you should save a specimen, with the flakes, just in case they fail to be present the day of the testing.

ANyone with a Reverse Osmosis water filtering unit will be familiar with see this smeared all over the first stage sediment filter and the water line leading up to the RO unit ... first time I saw it, I was glad that we'd switched to using only RO water for drinking ...

Buy a whole house filtering unit like GE's will remove this from your water supply into the rest of your house.

a rev-osm filter is the next purchase...bottled water gets expensive.

[Deadhead]

Water heater?
Are you getting the flakes with straight cold water?

[spagington]

Thanks again for all the replies. Of course, since I posted the question, the flakes have gone AWOL. Makes it hard to fix a problem when the problem goes away!

Anyway, I will give the water treatment companies a call and see what their recommendation is.

BTW, I think I get the flakes with both cold and hot water, but I am not sure.